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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6366696" data-attributes="member: 87792">QF(partial)T.&nbsp; There are roleplayers on MMOs, but MMOs beat D&amp;D hollow for within the lines hack and slash.Avery Mcaldando's Monsterhearts is doing pretty well at this - but hasn't the market penetration.&nbsp; <a href="http://lumpley.com/index.php/anyway/thread/660" target="_blank">Vincent Baker has some interesting experiences</a> - and it's why he's been writing odd little games like The Sundered Land.But whatever such games look like, they are going to look next to nothing like D&amp;D.Again,&nbsp; yup.&nbsp; We need something at least as different as Vampire: the&nbsp; Masquerade was.&nbsp; And something that will cause that type of upheaval in&nbsp; the community.&nbsp; Some of the story games people (Vincent Baker, Paul&nbsp; Czege, and Jason Morningstar in particular) are trying - but it's like&nbsp; trying to bottle lightning.Crunch heavy games (and yes, every version of D&amp;D fits) are scary.I'd&nbsp; say it's held back by the &quot;why&quot; question.&nbsp; &quot;Why do we need rules to&nbsp; make up stories?&quot; Which is why Fiasco and Dread are both brilliant intro&nbsp; games.&nbsp; Seconded.&nbsp; But 4e's presentation was frightful&nbsp; if you want a low barrier to entry.&nbsp;&nbsp; It was decently designed to tap&nbsp; the boardgame and the MMO markets but whoever was in charge of layout&nbsp; should have been fired.Again,&nbsp; seconded.&nbsp; Video games have a low barrier to entry.&nbsp; We're having a&nbsp; boardgame renaissance right now - there's no reason TTRPGs shouldn't&nbsp; also be joining in.Agreed - in part.&nbsp; The hurdle isn't&nbsp; that big for most of what both the Storygame and the OSR communities are&nbsp; producing.&nbsp; FAE fits in 64 pages I think.&nbsp; The rules for anything PBTA&nbsp; fit on a tiny handful.&nbsp; Fiasco?&nbsp; Not many rules.&nbsp; Most OSR stuff is&nbsp; almost as light.People read more than they ever have at any point in history.&nbsp; We just don't print it out onto dead trees firstAgain this is incredibly&nbsp; insular.&nbsp; A lot of modern RPGs (Fiasco and the entire Apocalypse World&nbsp; family spring to mind) give you tools to invent adventures on the fly.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is another problem with the big bulky book presentation model.But&nbsp; the problem with such games is that you can sell the game, but then&nbsp; what do you sell next?&nbsp; You can't really sell a product line.&nbsp; You need&nbsp; to sell an entirely new game.&nbsp; Monetisation is a problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6366696, member: 87792"] QF(partial)T. There are roleplayers on MMOs, but MMOs beat D&D hollow for within the lines hack and slash. Avery Mcaldando's Monsterhearts is doing pretty well at this - but hasn't the market penetration. [URL="http://lumpley.com/index.php/anyway/thread/660"]Vincent Baker has some interesting experiences[/URL] - and it's why he's been writing odd little games like [I]The Sundered Land[/I].But whatever such games look like, they are going to look next to nothing like D&D. Again, yup. We need something at least as different as Vampire: the Masquerade was. And something that will cause that type of upheaval in the community. Some of the story games people (Vincent Baker, Paul Czege, and Jason Morningstar in particular) are trying - but it's like trying to bottle lightning. Crunch heavy games (and yes, every version of D&D fits) are [I]scary[/I]. I'd say it's held back by the "why" question. "Why do we need rules to make up stories?" Which is why Fiasco and Dread are both brilliant intro games. Seconded. But 4e's presentation was [I]frightful[/I] if you want a low barrier to entry. It was decently designed to tap the boardgame and the MMO markets but whoever was in charge of layout should have been fired. Again, seconded. Video games have a low barrier to entry. We're having a boardgame renaissance right now - there's no reason TTRPGs shouldn't also be joining in. Agreed - in part. The hurdle isn't that big for most of what both the Storygame and the OSR communities are producing. FAE fits in 64 pages I think. The rules for anything PBTA fit on a tiny handful. Fiasco? Not many rules. Most OSR stuff is almost as light. People read more than they ever have at any point in history. We just don't print it out onto dead trees first Again this is [I]incredibly[/I] insular. A lot of modern RPGs (Fiasco and the entire Apocalypse World family spring to mind) give you tools to invent adventures on the fly. This is another problem with the big bulky book presentation model. But the problem with such games is that you can sell the game, but then what do you sell next? You can't really sell a product line. You need to sell an entirely new game. Monetisation is a problem. [/QUOTE]

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