Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
(More) ruminations on the future of D&D
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 6366752" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>Yeah, the smartphone adds a whole new dimension - entertainment in one's pocket. This impacts everyone - young and old(ish) alike. This is really another whole discussion, although related to this one, but I don't think we'll fully understand the negative elements of the cultural impact of smartphones for a few years yet. I'm not a luddite, but also find the "technological utopia" ideology laughably naive; for every step forward a new range of problems arise.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, in that 40 years isn't so long historically speaking. But I guess my question is whether it is largely a Boomer-to-Gen Y thing, centered on Gen X, or if it will capture Gen Z kids for whom advanced entertainment technologies are not just available, but ubiquitous. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have to disagree with you here, Bryon. Preference for the Transformers movies vs. the novels of Proust isn't just a personality thing, just as preference for Dunkin Donuts over gourmet French pastries speaks to a lack of refinement of tastes. Any kind of taste requires a development of a palate; in the case of video games vs. RPGs, the palate involves the deeper, more refined taste of self-generated imagination, wonderment, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>True. This reminds me of a thought I once had, about what would happen to RPGs if all publishers ceased publishing - or at least the major ones. I imagine there would still be a vibrant "underground" community, with tons of people self-publishing online, kickstarters, etc. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Although unfortunately even then, people like to text and drive! I can't tell you how many people I see texting while driving. </p><p></p><p>But yeah, as to the rest, you're preaching to the choir, bub. One other issue you didn't mention is when you play with a group of players and you're the only one who really wants to DM; if your group plays or not is entirely dependent on whether one person has the time and energy to prepare a game. So much of D&D at least is reliant upon one person, the DM.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well here's the thing: As I see it, there are two major qualities that tabletop RPGs have that video games don't really have, which is imagination and social interaction (and board games lack the former, for the most part). Humans, young and old, crave both. The problem isn't that we don't want these things, its that it is too easy to find surrogates - through video games and other discursive, passive, and non-creative entertainments. And what people don't realize, in my opinion, is that those "lesser" entertainments won't truly satisfy the deeper longings that tabletop RPGs <em>can </em>satisfy; all they do is "fill one up," like junk food. But like junk food, the underlying nutritional need remains unsatisfied. </p><p></p><p>But as for board games, they're a lot easier to prepare for than an RPG. First of all, most board games are a one-off - you play for a few hours and then are done. No picking up things where you left off. Board games are short stories rather than novels.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Talk about selective reading! Tony, to be honest I find it a bit challenging conversing with you because you're so clearly defensive about anything having to do with 4E and seem to (mis)translate anything anyone says that isn't glowing adoration as an attack.</p><p></p><p>So yeah I hear you, as Haffrung put it, you're pissed off that WotC moved on from 4E. Nothing I can do about that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that you're somewhat wilfully ignoring the fact that 4E--for whatever reason--split the community in a way that WotC wanted to rectify, and tried to rectify with 5E. Even if 4E is the best version of D&D evar, it still wasn't well received by <em>the community as a whole. </em>And in the end, for better or worse, that matters.</p><p></p><p>The question has always been two-fold: how to bring back lapsed players <em>and </em>how to find new ones. But 4E was the first time that large segment of <em>active </em>players left en masse, which was a huge problem for WotC and the health of D&D. </p><p></p><p>So regardless of how good 4E was as a game, it was terribly divisive to the community and had to be let go of.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I believe you - but it seems that your experience is somewhat localized and clearly and exception rather than the rule, otherwise 4E wouldn't have fizzled and died three years after it first came out.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Of course, although that doesn't mean that the two--what old players like and what will attract new players--are mutually exclusive. I would argue that the <em>underlying qualities </em>are somewhat universal - e.g. the play of imagination; Mearls' three pillars of exploration, combat, and social interaction; heroic adventure, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, that's part of it. I also see a streamlined game that reflects the last 25 years of game design, and little innovations and new bits here and there.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not sure what your point is?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is not at all what I am saying. Actually, I find that <em>every </em>generation has its foibles and hangups, but I take the view that "normalcy" is a mild form of psychopathology!</p><p></p><p>I'm not blaming "kids these days" for growing up in a context where <em>adults these days </em>exploit them by surrounding them with junk food entertainments. </p><p></p><p>As an aside, youdo realize that there are 4Edition warriors too, right? <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 6366752, member: 59082"] Yeah, the smartphone adds a whole new dimension - entertainment in one's pocket. This impacts everyone - young and old(ish) alike. This is really another whole discussion, although related to this one, but I don't think we'll fully understand the negative elements of the cultural impact of smartphones for a few years yet. I'm not a luddite, but also find the "technological utopia" ideology laughably naive; for every step forward a new range of problems arise. Sure, in that 40 years isn't so long historically speaking. But I guess my question is whether it is largely a Boomer-to-Gen Y thing, centered on Gen X, or if it will capture Gen Z kids for whom advanced entertainment technologies are not just available, but ubiquitous. I have to disagree with you here, Bryon. Preference for the Transformers movies vs. the novels of Proust isn't just a personality thing, just as preference for Dunkin Donuts over gourmet French pastries speaks to a lack of refinement of tastes. Any kind of taste requires a development of a palate; in the case of video games vs. RPGs, the palate involves the deeper, more refined taste of self-generated imagination, wonderment, etc. True. This reminds me of a thought I once had, about what would happen to RPGs if all publishers ceased publishing - or at least the major ones. I imagine there would still be a vibrant "underground" community, with tons of people self-publishing online, kickstarters, etc. Although unfortunately even then, people like to text and drive! I can't tell you how many people I see texting while driving. But yeah, as to the rest, you're preaching to the choir, bub. One other issue you didn't mention is when you play with a group of players and you're the only one who really wants to DM; if your group plays or not is entirely dependent on whether one person has the time and energy to prepare a game. So much of D&D at least is reliant upon one person, the DM. Well here's the thing: As I see it, there are two major qualities that tabletop RPGs have that video games don't really have, which is imagination and social interaction (and board games lack the former, for the most part). Humans, young and old, crave both. The problem isn't that we don't want these things, its that it is too easy to find surrogates - through video games and other discursive, passive, and non-creative entertainments. And what people don't realize, in my opinion, is that those "lesser" entertainments won't truly satisfy the deeper longings that tabletop RPGs [I]can [/I]satisfy; all they do is "fill one up," like junk food. But like junk food, the underlying nutritional need remains unsatisfied. But as for board games, they're a lot easier to prepare for than an RPG. First of all, most board games are a one-off - you play for a few hours and then are done. No picking up things where you left off. Board games are short stories rather than novels. Talk about selective reading! Tony, to be honest I find it a bit challenging conversing with you because you're so clearly defensive about anything having to do with 4E and seem to (mis)translate anything anyone says that isn't glowing adoration as an attack. So yeah I hear you, as Haffrung put it, you're pissed off that WotC moved on from 4E. Nothing I can do about that. I think that you're somewhat wilfully ignoring the fact that 4E--for whatever reason--split the community in a way that WotC wanted to rectify, and tried to rectify with 5E. Even if 4E is the best version of D&D evar, it still wasn't well received by [I]the community as a whole. [/I]And in the end, for better or worse, that matters. The question has always been two-fold: how to bring back lapsed players [I]and [/I]how to find new ones. But 4E was the first time that large segment of [I]active [/I]players left en masse, which was a huge problem for WotC and the health of D&D. So regardless of how good 4E was as a game, it was terribly divisive to the community and had to be let go of. I believe you - but it seems that your experience is somewhat localized and clearly and exception rather than the rule, otherwise 4E wouldn't have fizzled and died three years after it first came out. Of course, although that doesn't mean that the two--what old players like and what will attract new players--are mutually exclusive. I would argue that the [I]underlying qualities [/I]are somewhat universal - e.g. the play of imagination; Mearls' three pillars of exploration, combat, and social interaction; heroic adventure, etc. Yes, that's part of it. I also see a streamlined game that reflects the last 25 years of game design, and little innovations and new bits here and there. Not sure what your point is? That is not at all what I am saying. Actually, I find that [I]every [/I]generation has its foibles and hangups, but I take the view that "normalcy" is a mild form of psychopathology! I'm not blaming "kids these days" for growing up in a context where [I]adults these days [/I]exploit them by surrounding them with junk food entertainments. As an aside, youdo realize that there are 4Edition warriors too, right? :erm: [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
(More) ruminations on the future of D&D
Top