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<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 6366897" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>Gotcha. Yeah, board games do seem to be booming. I was in a local game store in New England, Myriad Games it is called, which mainly sells board games - and there are three or four stores in the region. In other words, they seem to be successful focusing on board games.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, and I'd disagree with them! Look, I get the postmodern rhetoric about relativity of subjectivity, but it has its limitations. I mean, you could effectively reduce <em>all </em>distinctions to relativity. And then where are we left? </p><p></p><p>Let's take my example of music. Do you think it is all just personal bias if I say that Miles Davis is more refined, sophisticated, even <em>superior </em>music to Justin Bieber? What about junk food and organic, gourmet cooking? Or is that just my personal bias? Can we make <em>any </em>distinctions without reducing it to subjectivity?</p><p></p><p>What I am saying is that tabletop RPGs are, in general, a more refined/sophisticated/imaginative experience than MMOs. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is what I call "selective memory." The community was divided. Many people hated 4E, and it wasn't simply because of the virtual tabletop. Again, I am not saying that 4E fizzled because it was a bad game or inferior to any other edition--I'm not making a judgement either way--but that for a variety of reasons it was rejected by a large enough segment of the D&D fan base for WotC to believe that a new edition was required sooner than later.</p><p></p><p>That said, I do think one valid argument is that WotC simply took advantage of the 4E fizzle and prepared a new edition sooner than they had originally intended.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Again, you have this tendency to misinterpret or skew what I actually said - even after I correct you! I just said in the last post that I don't think the younger generation is lacking in imagination, but that there are more distracting entertainments that don't call upon the imagination as much (like MMOs). </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Yes, I agree. But not all editions are equal in this regard. 4E had qualities that a large segment of the fan-base simply couldn't accept as "D&D."</p><p></p><p>Look, a few years ago I was having discussions with folks on this very forum about how one could make 4E into "D&D for them." And I've never been an edition warrior, only ever advocating for flexibility and embracing <em>all </em>editions as valid, unique forms of the great game we all love. But I am interested in what makes people like or dislike different editions, and why. </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree, just as I don't think snarky comments serve this conversation!</p><p></p><p>Is it a "high horse" to say that there are different depths and qualities of imaginative experience?</p><p></p><p>Is it a "high horse" to say that tabletop roleplaying games stimulate the imagination more fully than computer games?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 6366897, member: 59082"] Gotcha. Yeah, board games do seem to be booming. I was in a local game store in New England, Myriad Games it is called, which mainly sells board games - and there are three or four stores in the region. In other words, they seem to be successful focusing on board games. Yeah, and I'd disagree with them! Look, I get the postmodern rhetoric about relativity of subjectivity, but it has its limitations. I mean, you could effectively reduce [I]all [/I]distinctions to relativity. And then where are we left? Let's take my example of music. Do you think it is all just personal bias if I say that Miles Davis is more refined, sophisticated, even [I]superior [/I]music to Justin Bieber? What about junk food and organic, gourmet cooking? Or is that just my personal bias? Can we make [I]any [/I]distinctions without reducing it to subjectivity? What I am saying is that tabletop RPGs are, in general, a more refined/sophisticated/imaginative experience than MMOs. This is what I call "selective memory." The community was divided. Many people hated 4E, and it wasn't simply because of the virtual tabletop. Again, I am not saying that 4E fizzled because it was a bad game or inferior to any other edition--I'm not making a judgement either way--but that for a variety of reasons it was rejected by a large enough segment of the D&D fan base for WotC to believe that a new edition was required sooner than later. That said, I do think one valid argument is that WotC simply took advantage of the 4E fizzle and prepared a new edition sooner than they had originally intended. Again, you have this tendency to misinterpret or skew what I actually said - even after I correct you! I just said in the last post that I don't think the younger generation is lacking in imagination, but that there are more distracting entertainments that don't call upon the imagination as much (like MMOs). Yes, I agree. But not all editions are equal in this regard. 4E had qualities that a large segment of the fan-base simply couldn't accept as "D&D." Look, a few years ago I was having discussions with folks on this very forum about how one could make 4E into "D&D for them." And I've never been an edition warrior, only ever advocating for flexibility and embracing [I]all [/I]editions as valid, unique forms of the great game we all love. But I am interested in what makes people like or dislike different editions, and why. I agree, just as I don't think snarky comments serve this conversation! Is it a "high horse" to say that there are different depths and qualities of imaginative experience? Is it a "high horse" to say that tabletop roleplaying games stimulate the imagination more fully than computer games? [/QUOTE]
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