More Skillpoints

[simonski]

Now this is a houserule I use in my Forgotten Realms campaign and it isnt really ruining the balance.

I have increased the amount of skillpoints you get at each level.

+3 skillpoints per level.

Now I started using this houserule because I noticed that when players lack skillpoints they tend to take the skills that they MUST have to survive and I encourage players to take skills that flesh out the character more (Tea Ceremony, Gambling, Botanics, a whole lot of profession and craft skills (carpentry etc )).

One other rule is that although the players have more skillpoints than usual, skills also cost more the higher the value on the skill.

each step costs:
1-5 = 1 point / step
6-10 = 2 point / step
11+ = 3 point / step

This results in that characters on high levels dont get overly powerful with their skills and it also lets players take more skills at lower levels (more skills with low values).

It really helps players flesh out their character and its quite nice to see a dwarven fighter with a background in carpentry or a Human Necromancer with a passion for flowers (cutting, growing etc).

I have though of adding these extra skillpoints to CRAFT and Profession skills only, but still.. then the steps are more expensive characters should be able to choose themselves Not everyone got a profession after all.

Pardon my grammar.

What do you guys think?

 

[Chacal]

+3 skillpoints per level.

Now I started using this houserule because I noticed that when players lack skillpoints they tend to take the skills that they MUST have to survive and I encourage players to take skills that flesh out the character more (Tea Ceremony, Gambling, Botanics, a whole lot of profession and craft skills (carpentry etc )).

So you'd like to encourage what I call "background skills", why didn't you limit your +3 skillpoints to the list of skills you mentioned ?

One other rule is that although the players have more skillpoints than usual, skills also cost more the higher the value on the skill.

each step costs:
1-5 = 1 point / step
6-10 = 2 point / step
11+ = 3 point / step

This is a big alteration and it could really weaken the PCs as the DCs required for actions of high level characters are frequently high.

I have though of adding these extra skillpoints to CRAFT and Profession skills only, but still.. then the steps are more expensive characters should be able to choose themselves Not everyone got a profession after all.

Not everyone has a profession, but I can't really think of a high level PC which has no craft (calligraphy and bookbinding for mages, weaponsmithing, archery...), nor (not-so useful) knowledges like geography (adventurers travel a lot) .

IMC, we give 4 background skills points at 1st level, and some others when a PC takes some time to practice one of its background skills.

I really think that the raised cost for high ranks could really weaken classes depending more on skills.

Chacal

 

[simonski]

Re: Re: More Skillpoints

Not everyone has a profession, but I can't really think of a high level PC which has no craft (calligraphy and bookbinding for mages, weaponsmithing, archery...), nor (not-so useful) knowledges like geography (adventurers travel a lot) .

IMC, we give 4 background skills points at 1st level, and some others when a PC takes some time to practice one of its background skills.

I really think that the raised cost for high ranks could really weaken classes depending more on skills.

Chacal

4 bakground skill points at 1st level seems like a good rule, and other points when trainging, do you limit those bakground skills to some specific areas or are they allowed to take any skill they want ( - hey my character used to concentrate as a child ).

Thing is that characters in my old campaign got skills like JUMP 23 etc and with a DC 15-20 its impossible for them to fail resulting in alot of ridicoulus situations, even if they are high level they shouldnt be experts at everything they do, it would be more fun if they got a broader knowledge of things than maximizing the skills they have. But I havent tried they knew skillsystem that intensively yet. Maybe it will ruin the balance. Im not sure.

I also reward bonus skills for special situation, example:
Last session this Necromancer joined the church of Waukeen to hide out from his enemies and in the temple he studied alot of books about religion etc for like a month and I told him he now has Religion 1 rank because he studied so long.

 

[Chacal]

Re: Re: Re: More Skillpoints

4 bakground skill points at 1st level seems like a good rule, and other points when trainging, do you limit those bakground skills to some specific areas or are they allowed to take any skill they want ( - hey my character used to concentrate as a child ).

I limit these background skills : profession, craft, language, plus some knowledge or wilderness lore, provided they're not must have for the class(es) (i.e knowledge arcana for a wizard or wild lore for a ranger).

even if they are high level they shouldnt be experts at everything they do, it would be more fun if they got a broader knowledge of things than maximizing the skills they have.

They still deserve to be very good at a skill they put a lot of points in, but I agree about the overspecialization problem.

One way to change (a bit) this is by showing the players the usefulness of some overlooked skills, by requiring some rolls. Not to say that you should concentrate only on skills that the PCs didn't develop .

Another problem with skill "experts", is that they discourage other PCs to take the skill they're amazingly good at. Try to make situations were the "expert" could be helped by someone with a few ranks. It makes them act as a team, not as a bunch of specific tools.

I also reward bonus skills for special situation, example:
Last session this Necromancer joined the church of Waukeen to hide out from his enemies and in the temple he studied alot of books about religion etc for like a month and I told him he now has Religion 1 rank because he studied so long.

I really like this rule, but I might be biased, since I also use it

Chacal

 

[Khaalis]

I use a relatively unique System in my game for Skills.

Skill Points Awarded by Base Class
2: Paladin, Cleric, Fighter, Wizard
4: Barbarian, Druid, Monk, Sorcerer
6: Bard, Ranger
8: Rogue

Bonus Knowledge, Craft or Profession: (INT Bonus+1) x2


Racial Bonus Class Skills: The Racial Bonus Skills table lists the bonus skills gained by each individual race. These represent skills that are normally taught to children in each race’s society.
NOTES:
* Each PC may choose a number of Racial Skills equal to 1/3 of their Intelligence score (round down). Thus an Intelligence of 12 grants 4 Racial Bonus Skills. These Racial Bonus Class skills are counted as Class Skills for improvement cost and maximum ranks, regardless of the class granting the Skill Points.
* All PC’s with an Intelligence score greater than 9 begin with Knowledge (Mathematics) at a +2 bonus.
* Racial Bonus Class Skills gain a +2 Racial bonus.

Languages: Racial Base + INT Bonus


Example Racial Skills Tables:

Dwarf (Standard):
Bully, Craft (Blacksmithing, Brewing, Carpentry, Cartography, Craft Instrument, Gem-Cutting, Give Tattoo, Leatherworking, Stonemasonry), Handle Animal, Intimidate, Intuit Direction, Knowledge (Administration, Bureaucracy, Economics, Geology, Metallurgy, Monster Lore, Subterranean Cultures), Perform (Chanting, Musical Instrument, Oratory), Profession (Instructor, Jeweler, Locksmith, Miner, Scribe, Tailor), Spelunking, Wilderness Lore (Underdark)

Elf (Standard):
Alchemy, Craft (Craft Instrument, Leatherworking, Pottery, Sculpture, Weaving, Winemaking), Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Hide, Intuit Direction, Knowledge (Nature, Weather, Monster Lore), Perform (Dancing, Music Instrument, Poetry, Singing). Profession (Farmer, Hunter, Jeweler, Scribe, Tanner), Spot, Wilderness Lore

Human:
Craft (Any), Knowledge (Any), Profession (Any), Perform (Any); Special – Choice of One from 1st class’s Class Skills

 

[simonski]

Seems like a good system, but very much information. Isnt there an easier solution than keeping track of every skill depending on race?

 

[Khaalis]

it is a lot of information (especially since I have a LOT of races), but it is the only way to make it more realistic. Only other option would be similar to what is listed for the human.

 

[FullTinCan]

Now this is a houserule I use in my Forgotten Realms campaign and it isnt really ruining the balance.

I have increased the amount of skillpoints you get at each level.

+3 skillpoints per level.

One other rule is that although the players have more skillpoints than usual, skills also cost more the higher the value on the skill.

each step costs:
1-5 = 1 point / step
6-10 = 2 point / step
11+ = 3 point / step

This results in that characters on high levels dont get overly powerful with their skills and it also lets players take more skills at lower levels (more skills with low values).

What do you guys think?

I really like this. I think it addresses some of the fundamental issues with the d20 system, and that is skills continue to progress linearly. Yes they still progress linearly, but at some point the player will have to justify the cost of the purchases.

Have you encountered anyone with 16 or more ranks in something?

Now what do you do about class skills?

I may well have to use this as a house rule. Thanks.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This might increase the value of feats like Skill Focus, Alertness and so on...

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

This might increase the value of feats like Skill Focus, Alertness and so on...

I agree. It is way too easy to accumulate maxed-out ranks in class skills. My last character had Diplomacy and Bluff +23 (including stat mods and synergy bonus) by 16th level. It was practically impossible for him to fail at any attempt to schmooze his way into getting what he wanted from NPCs... Since hardly anybody had comparable ranks in Sense Motive or Diplomacy, he basically ran amok every time he opened his mouth.

Then there's the rogue with the amazing tumbling ability, every DM's worst nightmare...

I like the concept of higher skill ranks costing more points, and the idea of giving out more skill points for fleshing out specific background or hobby skills atr 1st level.

By adding +3 skill points to each character every level, it really helps all the classes with a measly 2 skill points (and +1 int mod if they're lucky) per level. Those classes are always forced to jam their points into life-saving skills and no fun stuff because they never have enough points to do anything like that... and usually have a severely limited (or just plain horrible) selection of class skills.

I may be adopting this system in the future.