Moronic Questions/Clarification

[Primitive Screwhead]

Sir William,
I was attempting to parse Upper Krusts monster builder into discrete PHB2 like changes. The project turned into too much of a time-hog given my current pace at work. When that settles down, around Nov timeframe, I will probably be looking at converting the WoBS campaign into 4E

EoM Pg 79.. ooops, missed that!

re: 'You...' I think its odd, altho grammatically correct, to read you = caster. I prefer a dimensional space that can be opened/closed by anyone. This neatly voids the death trap use

ploog, I like your extradimensional closet idea.. I was operating under the assumption that the Rogue/Mage would have the space attached to him/her and would be able to walk away.

One 'broken' use springs immediately to mind {just cause I think that way... }
Imagine a group of heroes advancing through a dungeon, closeting the doors the party can't pick or break down...

 

[phloog]

I guess I would trust my DM to not allow people to 'closet' doors - I can fix two problems mentioned by adding 'non-magical' as a requirement, and also by stating that the object must be free and unanchored, not just unheld or unpossessed. Again, I'm less worried about this because I as a player would never try to pull nonsense like this, and I as a DM would promptly do something quite terrible to a player who suggested this approach as anything but a joke.

Also, I would assume that to put something into the space, it would need to actually go into the space - it wouldn't be 'sucked in' - - so the only way to get the door into the space would be if it was completely contained in the space - otherwise it can't close...and the only way to do that would be to not only open, but REMOVE the door.

As far as Transform: Nature only being energy to matter, I disagree. My revised book says on page 79 that "if you want to turn a pumpkin into a carriage, use Transform
Nature..." - this to me would imply that turning ANY element into something that could be considered Nature would require T:N.

Granted, if you WANTED to transform force into matter you'd need the Matter enhancement, and to get that you need Transform: Nature...

So you can only do this force>>matter change with T:N, but this is not the ONLY thing that Transform: Nature can do.

My reading is that if the END result of the transformation is something that could be considered Nature (which I guess is wood, cloth, plants that aren't creatures, non-metal stuff, etc.), then it's T:N.

Hopping back and forth on topics here. I would definitely believe that the OPENING of the Create Space is static...and in fact I think the only way you would be able to carry it with you would be through the addition of Move Force 1, to move the 'area of effect'.

BUT upon looking again I think that you CANNOT take the doorway to the extra-D space with you, because the true 'area of effect' is not the opening, but the space in the other dimension - - so if you wanted to waste 1 MP to move an extradimensional space to a different part of the other dimension you could, but the opening to that extra-D space from this world is still where you originally made it - net effect = nothing. Not sure what this means in terms of creating a bag of holding, but that's a different set of rules.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I see the Bag of Holding as the same rules.. which may be part of the difference in opinion here

Adding the piece about the caster physcially moving the object into the stationary closet makes me agree that this would be a 0MP cantrip... but I would add a cost of 1MP to get the closet to close when an item is put inside.

But I don't see the rules working this way. I see the opening appearing either in a stationary point in space {needing Move Force to change its location} or 'mounted' on something..ala Bag of Holding.

This reading allows me to emulate on of my prior PC's favorite magic items.. a Tower Shield that held a Magnificent Mansion on the interior side

 

[phloog]

I see the Bag of Holding as the same rules.. which may be part of the difference in opinion here

Adding the piece about the caster physcially moving the object into the stationary closet makes me agree that this would be a 0MP cantrip... but I would add a cost of 1MP to get the closet to close when an item is put inside.

But I don't see the rules working this way. I see the opening appearing either in a stationary point in space {needing Move Force to change its location} or 'mounted' on something..ala Bag of Holding.

This reading allows me to emulate on of my prior PC's favorite magic items.. a Tower Shield that held a Magnificent Mansion on the interior side

I guess I could see the logic of allowing it to be essentially targeted (the opening appears on object X) - - I only assumed a stationary opening to avoid overpowering it - a ten minute bag of holding seems like it would let you get away with a lot.

I could also see making the 'closet' a 1MP enhancement rather than 0mp...I'll have to mull it over.

 

[sirwmholder]

I guess I could see the logic of allowing it to be essentially targeted (the opening appears on object X) - - I only assumed a stationary opening to avoid overpowering it - a ten minute bag of holding seems like it would let you get away with a lot.

I could also see making the 'closet' a 1MP enhancement rather than 0mp...I'll have to mull it over.

Keep in mind...

. This small pouch is enchanted with Create Space 0/Gen 1, and has an interior about as big as a 5-ft. cube., and can thus hold much more than would appear possible.
Market value – 1,000 gp.

So moving the opening if it is anchored on an object seems to fall in line with a Cantrip ability.

Hope this helps,
William Holder

 

[sirwmholder]

...As far as Transform: Nature only being energy to matter, I disagree. My revised book says on page 79 that "if you want to turn a pumpkin into a carriage, use Transform Nature..." - this to me would imply that turning ANY element into something that could be considered Nature would require T:N.

Granted, if you WANTED to transform force into matter you'd need the Matter enhancement, and to get that you need Transform: Nature...

So you can only do this force>>matter change with T:N, but this is not the ONLY thing that Transform: Nature can do.

My reading is that if the END result of the transformation is something that could be considered Nature (which I guess is wood, cloth, plants that aren't creatures, non-metal stuff, etc.), then it's T:N....

Ah, I can see that now... please forgive my ramblings above . And it has given me something to ponder... I'll start that in a new thread .

William Holder

 

[phloog]

Excellent feedback, all. I believe that I will be landing on the 1MP enhancement that allows a closet for only non-magical, unattended or unheld non-living objects that closes on entry.

If targeted at a point in space/within range, it is immovable, but with the option to attach it to another object, provided that the opening is no larger than the surface of the object to which the closet spell is bound (no dropping a full-sized statue of Admiral Schmappfuzz into a closet that's attached to a gold piece (unless it's a gold piece from the Mammoth Realms of Brapp, but who can afford one of those?))

I like it...it adds utility at the cost of being only usable for one item.