Morpheus and DnD

[smetzger]

Using pirated is not acting within the law, but on the other hand no ONE can judge whether it's right or not. Only you can decide if it's right for you...

Except of course a Judge.

 

[KidCthulhu]

Damn staight...

Also I remember the horror when looking glass was disolved...

Yep. So do I. I worked there, as did many other splendid board personages.

And this point can't be stressed enough. Say what you will about the free market, or outdated copyright laws. What really happens when you use pirated game materials is that you take the food out of the mouth of your friends and colleagues, the game makers. These aren't fat cat record executive. These aren't millionaires (except John Romero). These are your fellow gamers, working for usually very small salaries, some doing this as a second job (especially in this new d20 environment). We do this because we love to game, and want to share that with other gamers.

If you feel like you want to engage in practices that will ultimately lead to their being fewer game companies, and companies that produce fewer kinds of games (only those that sell really well), then feel free to Morpheus all you want. But when all you can play is what WotC produces and all the computer games are copies of what sold well last year, don't come bitching to me.

I'm being very polite right now, but I can assure that this practice makes me more rip than I can say without resorting to (more) profanity.

 

[Cergorach]

Except of course a Judge.

Actually, no. A judge can only decide if your breaking the law or not and how you will be punished when you break that law.

Guarilla warfare on piracy, doesn't work, it's been tried and it has failed. Blocking protocols is very difficult and an ISP can actually not do that yet. There are also some 'shadow' nets that utilese their own encrypted datastreams (which ISPs couldn't block because heir not doing anything illegal)...

 

[absurdum]

Now I don't know if this has been said yet or not, the thread is huge, but is it wrong to get copies of out of print pdf's outside of the US where you cannot even buy these with one of these p2p programs. Because there is o other way for you to get them.

 

[Roland Delacroix]

Doesn't seem like crap, seems like basic economics. I DL RPG books, as do some friends, and I can tell you that we buy what we like. An electronic copy is, right now, no substitute for the real thing.

Yes, i do it out of the 'juvenile urge to get what you want when you want it at no personal cost to you, despite the people who have slaved over that product.' I also realize that this 'juvenile urge' is what our entire economy is based on. If you give consumers a better, cheaper way to get your products maybe they won't DL them. Weeeelll, lets say that those who would have bought the books wont DL them. Of course broke teenagers are going to, but hell the 1e group i'm in now remembers photocopying the original PHB for everyone cause they were so broke. Normal consumers with money would still rather have the real thing.

And by better we don't necesarilly mean a a better product. Your products are pretty good, and i've bought some, but it has to be a better overall system than the one now. I like my book buying system now, its very convenient. DL the book, see if I like it, email my friend Ed to order it for me. If its not online I do what players have done for years, I borrow a friends, see if I like it, then order it from Ed.

Kenjib is right, this is just the beginning of a new age with all the accompanying growing pains. Everytime a significant technology has been introduced companies unable to change have fought it tooth and nail, lost, and then gone out of business or changed. If you can't see that, good luck in you next career.

I'm sorry; this is so much unmitigated crap.

I don't care how great a product I or any other company make, it will have no bearing on piracy. All it means is that there are cheese weasels out there getting even better products for free.

Claiming otherwise is an insult to the intelligences of everyone here, yourself included.

Let's not pretend that this is about some kind of grass-roots campaign to induce companies to produce better product, because it accomplishes the exact opposite. When you eat away at the profit margin of a small gaming company (and rest assured, there is no other kind), all you do is force even more cutbacks, which harms quality.

If you are going to engage in actions that overtly harm a company (call it theft, call it piracy, call it Central Caribbean Square Dancing for all I care), at least have the decency to admit that you are doing so, and don't pretend to be doing it out of any other motivation than the juvenile urge to get what you want when you want it at no personal cost to you, despite the people who have slaved over that product.

 

[UD]

Now I don't know if this has been said yet or not, the thread is huge, but is it wrong to get copies of out of print pdf's outside of the US where you cannot even buy these with one of these p2p programs. Because there is o other way for you to get them.

Yes. I cant buy the WotC online 1st and 2nd edition stuff off there website because I live in the UK, and someone else owns the distributing writes or something. remember, your still breaking copywrite laws. Go find a copy on ebay or something.

 

[kenjib]

I disagree, file sharing can be stopped. Filters can be installed on major hubs that will block the latest file sharing application. Major ISPs can filter out traffic from filesharing programs. Companies can be prosecuted that distribute, advertise on, and write the software. Also, guerrilla warefare can be employed to make file sharing more effort than its worth ( just utilize fake mp3s and pdfs ). Companies can publicise how this is illegal.

Only one of these avenues has been explored.

The unregulated black market can adapt much faster than the government or companies can. Every new thing they do takes forever to either legislate, run through R&D, and/or establish questionably applied standards from multiple software and hardware vendors (look what Microsoft and Netscape did to standards, for example).

We can waste tons of money researching technology that can and will be quickly circumvented by any 15 year old kid, and have the side effects of this constantly changing technology creating both rapid obsolescence cycles as well as impairing legal use (such as the Digital Millenium Copyright Act will do on a massive scale), or we can accept reality and find a new economic model that works. I don't see the point in wasting so many resources pursuing unenforceable laws that a large percentage of the population has few moral or ethical qualms against breaking.

These copyright issues are impeding the growth of the economy. Think about how different the history of the internet would have been if intellectual property rights were strictly upheld and protected. For one, we wouldn't have this very message board and I wouldn't be able to type "Dungeons and Dragons" right now. If we want to move ahead into a good future we need to think of something new. Information is free. You can not own a song, story, or poem (expand on this as implications permit). The very concept is ridiculous and a completely modern invention.

EDIT: Just to clarify though, I do think that it's really a shame that small companies lose money to piracy and I do sympathize. I just wish people would look ahead to get us out of this dilemma we're in now instead of clinging to old, outdated, standards that no longer apply to the new social and economic models that are emerging today as a result of the massive proliferation of cheap communication and media distribution/reproduction technology.

 

[Roland Delacroix]

Kenjib good analysis, are you a fellow economist? We need union cards to recognize each other or something.

 

[smetzger]

Actually, no. A judge can only decide if your breaking the law or not and how you will be punished when you break that law.

Guarilla warfare on piracy, doesn't work, it's been tried and it has failed. Blocking protocols is very difficult and an ISP can actually not do that yet. There are also some 'shadow' nets that utilese their own encrypted datastreams (which ISPs couldn't block because heir not doing anything illegal)...

My supposition is that there are two laws those from God and those from Man. The laws from God supersede the laws from Man. When you break the law you are doing something wrong and a judge has been put in authority over you to determine if you have done something wrong.

I never said blocking protocols would be easy, just that it is possible.

 

[smetzger]

The unregulated black market can adapt much faster than the government or companies can. Every new thing they do takes forever to either legislate, run through R&D, and/or establish questionably applied standards from multiple software and hardware vendors (look what Microsoft and Netscape did to standards, for example).

I didn't say this would be easy. Just possible. I do think that it would be relatively easy to introduce fake Mp3s and pdfs into the file sharing networks.