Morpheus and DnD

[Zelda Themelin]

I am sort of old fashioned. I love real books. I never pirate books, if I have other choice. That is, if I found it in shop, am able to order, can buy used version from somebody or anything like that. Though it would be cool to own pdf-version of books as well, but I don't feel like paying price double, though there has been few exceptions.

Oh, and I can't order WotD ESD:s from country I live in, unless I use some tricky method. These kind of things really suck.


Another limited factor for my piracy is 'sad' fact that I don't just know how to use properly and efficiently file-sharing programs, irc-servers, or stuff like that. I am jealous to people who know that stuff, because it grants them extra option. But I am both too dumb and lazy to learn, so my choice.


Rant about another thing follows..

But this conversation brings to my mind my favourite bias. I so hate country (area) -code system. As something similar, I remember hatíng it, when Dragon magazine started shipping to Finland from England years back. Those magazines were not complitely same, you see. Worst difference was cover. English cover was great example of picture-ruining, with all that extra white room for those stupid block adds for whats "in this mazine".

Ah,' they' started 'ruining' computer games years back too. You, see, about half-way of 90, we got games as they originally appered. Box, program itself, all that. Afterwards, started Europe-version hell. It wasn't enough that booklets (if there even was one, pdf-only was starting to become popular) where turned complitely black-white-grey, they also were written with 'europe-area-languages' (italy, german, french, sweden etc.), and in worst cases there was no english language section at all, since they 'kindly' replaced it with finnish text (typically bad translation), which sucked, since game was in english.

Also, japanise and american versions of games/dvd:s etc. seemed to always have better art, better extra, and more 'cruchy bits'. And this europe version is different politics caused also sad fact, that you had different patches. So nice to have to wait months for updates, that were already there for 'american version' of that game, that was sold out almost at the same time.

For console-politics it was even worse. Yep, you had to get illigal chip to get your playstation accecpt legally bought americal games (with all regular taxes included), which were not even sold in Europe area. You see, company politics want to decide what kind of games we play. And since rpg:s are not in most cases translated to PAL system (like I'd need one, all it takes is one extra cord). Also, if I when I finally get to pay FFX for my playstation sometime next summer. If it is like that demo, which is out here, it's gonna look horrible, and work slower than compared american version which has been out there for some time now, because of bad PAL translation. I do hope they change that yet.

Did you know, that even though X-box doesn't as such have incoded coutry code-limit, many code it within the games. Oh, why let good old politics change.

Also, very typical is sell out game in here, that is to all appearances 'platinium' version of americans, but with full price, of course.

Problem is, I as customer don't IMO get as good version of product because I happen to live 'in wrong area' (aka Europe). Only way to get over this problem is to do 'illigal' alterations to my console, which also, incidently would give my console ability to read pirated dics. Things are funny that way. And sure, that does also bring on temptation to pirate games for same extra effort it took to play legal ones. Companies help create these temptating grey areas by creating such cumbersome systems.

So, any one of you have ideas, how to bring down this evil area-code system.?

 

[DungeonKeeperUK]

I've seen all sorts on there from all editions of D&D, and yes I have downloaded a few of the books I have in hard copy, means I can cut & paste sections for use in my games with Acrobat..
My main worry is not for the published copies, after all I much prefer to hold a book than read off a screen and hte cost of printing nearly reaches the price of a book anyway, but think it could seriously damage the future of PDF market....

 

[poilbrun]

Well, do you ASK THE OWNER OF THE CAR FOR A TEST DRIVE FIRST??? If yes, then, you're not a thief. If no -- if you just hop in the car because you "might buy it someday", then, yes, you are.

As for the radio -- uhm, dude, the people who own the radio station bought the song and pay the record company.

If these are the best examples you can come up with, your logic is as poor as your ethics.

I don't even care about your opinion of me, but I can counter the argument easily. You mean that if I buy a record and broadcast it via my radio station, it's ok? Then, it's as OK for someone to buy the book, scan it, and then give it to everyone who doesn't pay for it...

If I'm uncertain about whether or not to buy a book, I read reviews, ask around on the net, or, you know, flip through the book in the game store. I don't slip the book into my briefcase, take it home, read it, then decide to pay for it or not.

But that's not what I'm doing either. First off, I don't have any brieface . Second, as I already said, the book is often already paid, or at least ordered, when I download it from the internet. I'm not the guy who's getting a huge collection of books without paying any of them. I'm the guy who buys his books, but would also like to have them in electronic format.

 

[bramadan]

A question for all the "theft is theft" people out there:
While certanly illegal is theft necessarily immoral ? Also is all theft *equaly* immoral ?

Stealing food money from a single mom strikes me as significantly [...] more immoral then stealing contents of a CD from a multi-milion dollar record company.

Reason why moralizing reasonong will never hinder (vast majority of) people in file "sharing" is that there is no normal human being being wronged for the thief to empathise with. It is *very* hard to empathise with corporations and only marginaly less hard to empathise with millionaire artists and core of our moral values is empathy.

If the chances of being caught were as infinitesimal as they are with file "sharing" I would without any moral reservations steal couple of hunderd thousand from Bill Gates but would never do so to the guy for whome that money is his lifetime savings for the old age (or whatever).

[It used to say less, it was a typo]

 

[poilbrun]

Stealing food money from a single mom strikes me as significantly less immoral then stealing contents of a CD from a multi-milion dollar record company.

Are you sure that's what you meant? Or is the way I understand this sentence completely wrong?

Now, to resume my opinion on what I'm doing : legally, it may be theft to download a pdf version of a book I own. However, ethically, I really believe I'm not doing something wrong, and as such, I do not consider myself a thief.

 

[Eternalknight]

Stealing food money from a single mom strikes me as significantly less immoral then stealing contents of a CD from a multi-milion dollar record company.

I think you might want to proof read before you post.... either that or you are a sick monkey

 

[Tsyr]

Despite what I said about me not being an uber pirate or anything, I will openly admit to using morpheus for one specific type of MP3: Anime music MP3s that are normaly almost impossible to get in any format, and when you can get them it's on import CDs that are quite capeable of costing 50$+, and I want one song of it.

It's no less piracy. But I'll admit to doing it.

~Tsyr

*Well... technicly fansub anime is "pirating", but it's all but condoned by the companies... fansubs are pretty much why anime made it in America in the first place... besides, at least there I do later buy it when it comes to america... I prefer to think of myself as a "Slightly legaly grey early adopter" in that case .

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Despite what I said about me not being an uber pirate or anything, I will openly admit to using morpheus for one specific type of MP3: Anime music MP3s that are normaly almost impossible to get in any format, and when you can get them it's on import CDs that are quite capeable of costing 50$+, and I want one song of it.

Yep, I've done this too. I don't know where Tsyr lives, but ordering imports to Finland is not something done easily, oh, and it costs even more with stupid taxes.

I only buy anime or video game music (I actually prefer later), when one of my friends visits Japen, which need I say, happens rarely.

Though, I also admit my small bite to area of 'grey piracy' ended when Napster went down. So, closing it managed to stop efforts of lazy and inefficient 'pirates' like me, but did nothing to most.

I'm no very keen on other kind of piracy, but copied few games here and there. Mostly back years, where I own cracked copy for nearly every rpg I owned. I did it for conviniance's sake. I really hated checking some stupid word in page this and that in booklet as password and I disliked gold boxes' stupid code-wheels (or whatever those were called) I had to use every time I started game. None of newer games work in my computer, which lacks 3d-card so I don't bother much with new games.

 

[UD]

I fail to see why you quoted my message. I was referring to the difference between piracy and theft, but you're referring to something that sounds like it might be fair use if you own a copy of the book already.

Just to point out, this is illegal in the UK, your not allowed to make copies of anything - CDs, tapes, books, whatever, without the authours permission.

After reading thru that it seemed a little harsh
The above is a knee jerk reaction to the Record Industry and
the Software (Game Industry) not RPG Companies

Two things i will always spend my money on (weather available for download or not) are Books and Movies (DVD's/Theatre)

They are woirth the bucks

Music and Software games however...read my post above

There is a grose misunderstanding at the cost it takes to develop software and games... Imagine spending 2, 3 even 4 years designing, making and completing a game. £30 isnt a lot of money to pay for 30-40+ hours of gameplay (many cases much more). As a software engineer I may be slightly biased, but to spend years of your life making a product only to see people distributing it for free infuriates me. Howmany games studios are folding at the minute - lots. As was mentioned earlier software is distributed under a licence. You very rarely own the software - only a licence to use a copy of it. Thats what you pay for, the licence. And you think £150- is to much to pay for MS new OS - well it only represents thoasands of people working for maybe 3-4 years. Put it this way, if you spend 2-3 years of your life working on a product/reprt/book/whatever, then decide to sell it, and then people start distributing it for free on the net, what would you do?

This is not so for music. The RIAA enforces a hideous markup on CDs to the tune of being over 1000% the cost of production, and that is after accounting for the cost of labor (i.e. the artist's work). (Go watch the TLC episode of VH1's Behind The Music sometime and see for yourself how bad it is for both musicians and music lovers.) So I gladly and gleefully search for what I want to hear online. As my primary interest--anime soundtracks--are either prohibitively expensive or unavailable through normal channels, using a P2P network is the only viable option. Make it so that buying CDs is easier and cheaper than downloading them and burning tunes to disk, and I'll do that instead. Until then, if I buy CDs at all I buy them used.

I rip MP3s, thats the only thing I ever have done illegally (its illegal to have coppies of music you own here in the UK - there is no fair use agreement, or whatever it is called allowing you to make a copy for back up). But then I own most the MP3s I have in hard copy. But Im doing it illegally, Its the only way I can really ever have digital music in the UK...

 

[Harlequin]

...

There is a grose misunderstanding at the cost it takes to develop software and games... Imagine spending 2, 3 even 4 years designing, making and completing a game. £30 isnt a lot of money to pay for 30-40+ hours of gameplay (many cases much more). As a software engineer I may be slightly biased, but to spend years of your life making a product only to see people distributing it for free infuriates me. Howmany games studios are folding at the minute - lots. As was mentioned earlier software is distributed under a licence. You very rarely own the software - only a licence to use a copy of it. Thats what you pay for, the licence. And you think £150- is to much to pay for MS new OS - well it only represents thoasands of people working for maybe 3-4 years. Put it this way, if you spend 2-3 years of your life working on a product/reprt/book/whatever, then decide to sell it, and then people start distributing it for free on the net, what would you do?

I am fully aware of how much time and money it takes to make a software game...Dont presume me ignorant to prop up your own arguments...

If you have been following my whole argument...I clearly wrote that i am not prepared to pay $80 bucks for a game that has all but ONE hour of gameplay and then its off to the delete bin...

If a company or anyone spends three years on a game and
i have to remove it after an hours worth of play...then that company deserves to go under and out of business...

Also you did write later in your post that you do dload mp3's
So i dont think you can cry poor when you take money from recording artists mouths

the pot calling the kettle black

We all have our reasons for piracy (in all its forms)

I still stand by what i said earlier...

The Recording Industry and Software/Game Industry needs a good hard long look at itself with its practises and what it gets away with the crap they shove down our throats...and the prices they charge for that crap...

There are a few good Software companies that do give value for money...but unfortunatly they do suffer for the sins of the many...

Oh well thats capitalism for you


Harlequin