Morpheus and DnD

[Teflon Billy]

I would happily download CoC from anywhere it was posted. If it was any good, I would then purchase it from my local shop (I can't be bothered to run copies myself, and prefer a nicely bound book to a bunch of photcopies in a duotang.

If it was no good, then no harm done.

 

[EverSoar]

I really don't think its that big of a problem. Record labels, and WoTC are not out of money, because they released one cd/book, and now everyone around the world has it on cd.

Its just not that much of an issue. Sure companies would be losing money. but i think its fair game, the companies are only out to make money, they care not if they dupe us into believing that something is a lot different to what it is.

The issue of trying before you buy, only makes it more prevalent for the companies to dish out, 'quality'. I will always buy a decent product. Despite my having used p2p software for many years, i have bought many albums, and bought many a 3e book.

It hasn't stopped my spending money.

Just as i'm sure it hasn't stopped for a lot of people.

As for morals, just because its illegal, DOES NOT make it morally wrong. I'm not gonna debate morals, but I think my giving money to a company and recieving a product i'm unhappy with, is hardly good business.

Most of my friends download music, but its only ever a few songs. With the exception of one, he download the entire album, then went out and bought it the first day it came out. Depsite being able to burn it.

p2p doesn't put companies out of money, but it is a breach of copyright and distribution laws.

But you are not going to be rid of it, so companies may as well embrace it, and use it as a preview method. Cause thats what it is to me.

 

[Akunin]

Re: A proposition ....

Hey, all you filethieves (sorry, SHARERS) out there ... how about a little proposition.

<snip>

Besides, I can't see the WOTC layoffs from my backyard. They don't exist in my nice, cozy little universe.

/me wants to have Replicant's Cthulhu-babies.

 

[TeaBee]

1) Some things I know I'd really like, and really want, so I buy them.

2) Some things I know I'd kind of like (but not enough to pay for them), kind of want, and I get them some other way.

3) Some things I know I'd kind of like (but not enough to pay for them), kind of want, and I get them some other way, but get to really like, and go buy them.

4) Some things I don't really want, don't buy, and then get some other way regardless, but get to really like, and go buy them.

5) Some things I don't really want, don't buy, and then get some other way regardless, but don't like, and then get rid of.

6) Some things I know I don't like, and don't want, and don't have.


Be it music/software/anything like that.

If I want it I don't "pirate" it. I mean, I like fancy professional packaging, don't you? If you really want something, why get yourself a crappy copy?

Things I would never buy, I don't. Sometimes I get it some other way, I'm wrong, and then I do go buy it.

This is just how I am. If I want it, I pay for it. If I don't want it enough to pay for it, I either don't have it, or don't pay for it.

Remember, Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral are not any Evil.

I know companies aren't loosing my money, so I'm okay with that. If you're not okay with that, you don't have to live the same way I do.

In fact, because of my #3 (and very rarely #4) they're making more money from me.

 

[Henry@home]

Getting as much as possible for as little as possible is at a core of capitalism. Paying "fairly" for other people's products, not getting something unless one is willing to pay the asked price and so on are noble ideas but not ones that are really jiving with the basic capitalist view of human nature.

Point to ponder: If the above statements are truth, then why are some of the largest Warez sights coming from Former USSR and and Chinese-based servers?

My employer has a wonderful little saying that I never thought about before. People want a product the most if it is both "Good, and Cheap." It has nothing to do with Capitalism. It has to do with basic human self interest. EVERY HUMAN BEING ON THIS WHOLE PLANET HAS A HEALTHY DOSE OF SELF-INTEREST. It doesn't stop us from exhibiting altruism, self-sacrifice, or other higher traits.

However, being human, and being fallible, if you were presented with a choice between working and paying for something, or acquiring something that wasn't yours that you knew had no punishments or repercussions for, which one would you take? If you could, say, steal a car from the Auto-mart lot, and knew beyond certainty that there were NO physical, legal, or spiritual repercussions for the action, WOULD YOU DO IT?

The reason for Warez Downloads has nothing to do with "sticking it to the Man", or making a political statement, or being in a capitalistic society, or because you are poor, no matter WHAT anyone tells you. It is because there are almost NO repercussions for doing so in most countries' statutes. and because the Warez obtained are usually "Good, and Cheap."

Note: Good does not mean Fantastic or top quality. Cheap sometimes means free, but not always. First comes "Good," then comes "Cheap."

 

[Veander]

Another twist

A bit of a twist on this is something Monte Cook refers to on his site somewhere. It's about some game designers not even playing the games yet still being the ones creating them. So while I am certainly not saying even these folks shouldn't be paid as much as true RPing game designers, it makes you feel like diffferent about some of the products you buy.

I dont know who these game designers who don't play the games they design are, but it sort of makes me feel like what the record industry attempts to do sometimes. They have focus groups deciding how albums are put together and even band members sometimes. Maybe a bad analogy, but I know I would rather game designers actually played some table-top DnD, as well as the vry game system they write for.

In any event, I'll download them as long as I can, but whenever a chunk of money comes into my grasp I will always spend it on gaming books. Regardless of whether I have in PDF or not. I haven't met anyone yet who would have actually went out and bought the growing amount of 3rd edition material if the PDFs simply weren't available for free. Exceptions to every rule aside I know. I just bought 8 AEG Booster adventures and I would think I never woul dhave had I not tried one of them. Good stuff really. Ok, I am ready to be demoralized.

V

 

[rounser]

Gah, would you people stop making inappropriate analogies involving stealing physical property?

Piracy does not involve loss of an object, it involves the potential loss of a sale. (It can also involve the potential gain of sales that otherwise wouldn't happen in some cases, but people don't point that out often.)

It really isn't that hard to understand, so please quit with the inappropriate analogies!

 

[Henry@home]

Gah, would you people stop making inappropriate analogies involving stealing physical property?
[/i] [/B]

On the other hand, it DOES involve property - Intellectual Property, which is a legally-defined form of property.

Legally speaking, it is theft. A different form of theft than what we are used to thinking of, but theft onetheless.

Rounser, why does comparing it to other forms of theft upset you so much?


(P.S. Since there really is nothing else to say for either side, and my point has been made (that regardless of morality immorality, theft or no theft, it is still illegal by U.S. and other companies' statutes) then I shall say no more on the subject.)

This is one of those "trap" subjects, like Alignment, and Gary Gygax, and Roll-play vs. Role-play, and I am doing a horrible disservice to the boards by continuing it.

Good night all, and good gaming.

 

[Psionicist]

In Sweden, it's only illigal to distribute, not to download yourself. That's why my D&D folder is 19.8 GB...

...

...

Just kidding (except for the Swedish law stuff).

To give the truth and nothing but the truth, I have indeed downloaded some books, but it's a pain in the ass on an old modem, so it's a better deal to buy the books.

However, I download music. Lots of music. I don't give a rats if those damn thieves loose some 10 bucks, if I save 10. If the music industry "suites" thinks they can do whatever they want to save and earn money (as Digital Millenium and that other silly idea that makes lots of computer related thins illigal, so they won't loose money on pirated music)... Bah! I want to kick those bastards in the junk, steal there wallets and give the money to the artists.

 

[rounser]

Rounser, why does comparing it to other forms of theft upset you so much?

It's endlessly frustrating for me to see people deal with IP issues in the only way they're used to - likening it to theft of physical property. Our minds are not used to the idea of stealing something as insubstantial as a pdf, so we see these lame analogies to physical theft again and again that serve to confuse the issues at hand.

Calling piracy theft, and those who do it theives instead of pirates does more to obfuscate the issue than enlighten it, because their activity doesn't have the same implications nor results as a car thief or a burglar. I got my laptop stolen recently - it was done by a thief who walked into my girlfriend's place. That was a thief. If I got my music pirated (which probably won't happen because it's not very good yet), I would be pissed off but not for the same reasons. They're not the same things.