Morpheus and DnD

[rounser]

On the other hand, it DOES involve property - Intellectual Property, which is a legally-defined form of property.

IP is property, I never denied that, but it isn't physical property. In the digital world you can duplicate a work of intellectual property and still leave the owner with a copy. With physical property, if you take it, the owner has one less copy. You know this. This means that the whole dynamic of taking = loss of a physical object isn't necessarily the implication anymore, but it is still an implication of the word "theft". The losses take a different form.

IMO, to most people the losses associated with the word "theft" pretty clearly imply the loss of a physical object, whereas the word "piracy" implies loss of sales, or loss of a right to IP. Using the wrong word obfuscates the issues.

Dance music event promoters who sell tape packs from their events but don't give a cent to the record labels who made the tracks are pirates, not thieves. (This doesn't make it any less infuriating for the producers who spent massive amounts of time and money to make said tracks, mind you.)

As you can see, this is a pet peeve of mine.

 

[Corinth]

Point to ponder: If the above statements are truth, then why are some of the largest Warez sights coming from Former USSR and and Chinese-based servers?

Because Communism, as they claim it to be, is a load of crap and they know that it doesn't really work.

 

[turtle]

Dance music event promoters who sell tape packs from their events but don't give a cent to the record labels who made the tracks are pirates, not thieves. (This doesn't make it any less infuriating for the producers who spent massive amounts of time and money to make said tracks, mind you.)

As you can see, this is a pet peeve of mine.

I think you are wrong.

Not all thieves are pirates, but all pirates are thieves

 

[Lord_of_Doom]

The people who say things like "I'm just trying out to see if I like the book" or "I buy everything that I download" need to wake up. Even if you really do buy everything you download (and I think this HIGHLY unlikely), you are encouraging theft simply by using these arguments.


To make yet another analogy:

"I buy guns illegally smuggled into the country via the black market. However, I keep these machine guns solely for self defence, and I only buy them this way because the tyrannical government violates the Second Amendment and (standard libretarian rambling goes here)"

Here, even though the speaker presumably does not use these guns to kill people, they support a system that allows criminals to get their hands firearms. It's the same way here. Admittedly, theft is less of a crime than murder, but it is still undeniably illegal.

Does that make any sense at all?

 

[Ysgarran]

IP is property, I never denied that, but it isn't physical property. In the digital world you can duplicate a work of intellectual property and still leave the owner with a copy. With physical property, if you take it, the owner has one less copy. You know this. This means that the whole dynamic of taking = loss of a physical object isn't necessarily the implication anymore, but it is still an implication of the word "theft". The losses take a different form.

I think that you are probably fighting a losing battle. Unfortunately those with an interest in extending digital property rights in more and more areas explicitly use the terminology that confuses the differences between physical theft and digital piracy.

At the moment a two sided war is brewing between media companies (such as Disney) and the tech companies. If the media companies win, then the ability for fair use of digital media may go away. Did anyone read about Eisner's comments before congress? Pretty much full of hyperbole: If no moves are made to protect online content the entertainment business will be finished. (sorry, but what a load of crap). The media companies solution would be to get the hardware people to build ways of blocking digital piracy.

Sony has taken a slightly different tact and seems to have a better handle on the new realities that they face. They are not reacting or pushing as hard for the hardware modifications that Disney is pushing for.

I don't use any of the file sharing programs. I have been tempted because I wouldn't mind having a copy of the original "Hobbit" cartoon.

 

[Harlequin]

Re: Re: ...

So it is wrong for us to NOT call you ignorant because you are fully aware of the effort that goes into software, books, music, etc.

Is it okay then to call you ignorant because you are not smart enough to research products before you buy them? Why did you purchase a game with one hour's gameplay on it without first asking friends, the internet, checking magazines their opinions of said title?

I agree that companies that offer shoddy products should go out of business, but it is hardly a justification for stealing said products. To expand the thought, if you have been burned by a company once for shoddy material, why do you continue to show interest in said company by stealing other material of theirs?

I do bet you feel really good about yourself thinking you are the big, bad Robin Hood sticking it to 'the man' by taking away from their money-grubbing throats. Perhaps you can explain that to the folks laid off from WotC?

Call me Ignorant if you think that will make your warm fuzzy rightseous moral heart better...I dont care

Im too lazy to research products, I did not purchase a game with one hours gameplay (Im smarter than that ) i dont have any friends, people's opinnions on the internet (ie this debate) count for $%^& , Im not paying for a magazine just to see a review on one game from one person's perspective, who probably works for that company and wants to sell as much of the game as they can

Im not trying to JUSTIFY anything...

Please read clearly and you might had seen that i said i dont care if people think it right or wrong...

I do cause i can

I dont feel like Robin Hood, Im not trying to do some great good cause for anyone but myself...

Capitalism is about being greedy and selfish

Im a Capitalist

I dont give a rat's %^$ above the WotC layoffs...
Ive been layed off countless times and i dont see anyone crying for me?

If sacking 50 people can make DnD better then...

Halrequin Waves!

You defend Capitalism and thier right to rip us off
but then you cry about layoff's?

Who is the Ignorant one here?


Harlequin

 

[Replicant]

I would happily download CoC from anywhere it was posted. If it was any good, I would then purchase it from my local shop (I can't be bothered to run copies myself, and prefer a nicely bound book to a bunch of photcopies in a duotang.

If it was no good, then no harm done.

If reviewing potential products is REALLY all you utilize downloads for, Billy, then I'd have no problem with doing so. Unfortunately, I feel you're in a considerable minority here.

Maybe it's my lack of faith in humanity, but I find it awfully hard to believe folks who go through all the trouble downloading and printing out a copy of book would purchase it afterwards on sheer principle.

 

[EverSoar]

If reviewing potential products is REALLY all you utilize downloads for, Billy, then I'd have no problem with doing so. Unfortunately, I feel you're in a considerable minority here.

Maybe it's my lack of faith in humanity, but I find it awfully hard to believe folks who go through all the trouble downloading and printing out a copy of book would purchase it afterwards on sheer principle.

I very much doubt he is a minority. Every one of my friends, do the same. Look at it, then buy it if it is worth it. There is no harm in viewing it before hand.

 

[rounser]

I think that you are probably fighting a losing battle. Unfortunately those with an interest in extending digital property rights in more and more areas explicitly use the terminology that confuses the differences between physical theft and digital piracy.

I know. You can see the same sort of deliberate confusing of differences in the posts of some of the contributors in this thread, and yes, choice of terminology is part of this.

 

[Hoju]

If reviewing potential products is REALLY all you utilize downloads for, Billy, then I'd have no problem with doing so. Unfortunately, I feel you're in a considerable minority here.

Maybe it's my lack of faith in humanity, but I find it awfully hard to believe folks who go through all the trouble downloading and printing out a copy of book would purchase it afterwards on sheer principle.

Is it really that much different than renting a video game or PC game? Try before you buy is a must for people without excess amounts of disposible income. I can d/l a game from kazaa and try it out, someone purchased that game in order to make it available. Or I can rent that same game from the local video game store and try it for a few days, in that case the game was still only purchased once and exposed to more than that single purchaser.