Mounted Charge

[Chrynoble]

The following mechanic bugs me.

Two knights charge each other from ~ 300 feet.

Knight 1 moves forward 100'
Knight 2 moves forward 100'
Distance apart 200'


Knight 1 moves forward 100'
Knight 2 moves forward 100'
Distance apart 100'

Knight 1 charges knight 2 and does double damage
Knight 2 being out of charge range attacks with his lance (because the other knight stopped at 10') and does normal damage.

This just doesn't make sense to me, as both knights have been on a horse moving at the same speed for the same time. Why does one knight get the bonus for momentum, and the other knight not?

My solution:

A character may declare a charge against any target s/he can see, even if that target is not in range this turn.

As long as the character continues to move in a straight line, at full speed towards the target the next turn they will be counted as charging even if the total distance to the target is less than 20' that turn. This may continue indefinitely.

Attacks are still resolved in Initiative order so a knight that was killed or unhorsed would not get to attack, and thus not recive the benifit of charging.
What do you all think?

 

[Black Pharaoh]

your math is wrong.
300-200 is 100, not 200.

so knight 1 gets his charge on turn 2 not turn 3.

also wouldn't knight 1 be running rather than charging so he would ove 200 feet instead of 100. meaning knight 2 charges him on turn 1.

 

[Ferrix]

You could always have the knight who acts second ready against a charge with his lance *shrugs*

 

[Chrynoble]

OK, sorry for the bad math

Starting distance 600 feet

turn 1 both move 200, ending up 200 feet apart
turn 2, knight one moves either 100 feet, and gets charged, or moves 200 feet and can't act so no one charges. Either way, this is not the epic crash of mounted warriors, and forces one or both nights to speed up and slow down strategically. That doesn't seem right to me.

Charging another knight shouldn't be a waiting game or a game of cat and mouse.

 

[mikebr99]

You could always have the knight who acts second ready against a charge with his lance *shrugs*

That's the spear's special ability, not the lance... the lance lets you get all the benefits of weilding two-handed (see power attack), while only using one hand to weild it... [waits patiently for arguements]


Mike

 

[DanMcS]

OK, sorry for the bad math

Starting distance 600 feet

turn 1 both move 200, ending up 200 feet apart
turn 2, knight one moves either 100 feet, and gets charged, or moves 200 feet and can't act so no one charges. Either way, this is not the epic crash of mounted warriors, and forces one or both nights to speed up and slow down strategically. That doesn't seem right to me.

This is a subclass of a general problem with initiative systems; they don't handle simultaneous action well. D&D explicitly excludes it, in fact- no one can ever have the same initiative.

You could handle this mostly by-the-book with a readied partial charge action (not sure that's completely 3.5 legal, but it handles it). Or you could just realize that some borderline things aren't handled well by the rules, accept it, and move on. When your two knights charge each other, have them both roll to-hit and declare that it happens simultaneously.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

This is a subclass of a general problem with initiative systems; they don't handle simultaneous action well. D&D explicitly excludes it, in fact- no one can ever have the same initiative.

Exactly.

I can understand your unhappiness with the abstraction Chyrnoble. But the D&D system gives an advantage to the person with the better initiative.

It's the same thing with two rogues standing next to each other. The first one will get to sneak attack, because the other is flat-footed until he acts. When it's the second rogue's turn, he doesn't get a sneak attack, because the other has already acted and is therefore not flat-footed.

Personally, I don't mind it. Initiative is a valuable advantage. For charging knights as well as anyone else.

 

[Chrynoble]

It actually bugs me less if it was only initiative that we were talking about.

What bugs me is the idea of knights slowing down or stopping mid charge because of the system.

I guess another alterantive would be to not give ranges to my players. Just say you are somewhere between 100 and 200 ft. The problem is we play with minis and they can sometimes count grid squars.

 

[Black Pharaoh]

if you do away with minis and battlemats, then how do we deal with the AoOs and the reach of the lances?

 

[Shuffle]

If both knights declare that they're charging, then implement Jousting rules from Complete Warrior. With one caveat, if the knight with higher initiative "unhorses" the other then the lower init knight loses their attack.