Mounted combat

[Li Shenron]

This is a topic that I have NEVER understood properly, and I always have to ask again every few months...

1) Using a warhorse or similar mount trained for combat

The rider has normal round worth of actions (standard + MEA) and the horse has its own round worth of actions, at the same initiative. There are restrictions to the riders actions as follows:

MELEE: you get a full-attack only if the mount's total movement in this round is not more than 5ft; if it is more than 5ft you can only take 1 single melee attack (standard action), but you still get the MEA

RANGED: you get a full-attack whatever the mount's movement (for simplicity, you assume to have shot all the arrows at the middle of the mount's movement); there are penalties to the attack rolls depending of mount's movement, but not restrictions to the number of attacks; if you don't make a full-attack, you still can do a standard+MEA

SPELLS: besides concentration checks, there is no restrictions, so for example you could cast a spell with standard action and get a MEA as well


2) Using a normal horse or similar mount NOT trained for combat

The mount gets his normal worth of round actions (standard+MEA), but the rider gets at best only a standard action, since you must spend a MEA to control the mount (a Ride check). Furthermore, if you fail the check, that MEA becomes a FRA and you basically don't do anything in the whole round (expect maybe free actions).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you mind to check if the above is correct. Obviously, I think it's not, so please correct my errors .

I am not very sure which are the consequences TO THE MOUNT'S ACTIONS if you fail the check to control an untrained mount. There seems to be no penalties, but "you fail to control the horse"... and it says that the mount is "frightened": now, do you think it means FRIGHTENED per the glossary (i.e. the mount flees if you fail the check?). The Ride check doesn't say it removes the frightened state, but at least I suppose it prevents it to flee. Or maybe it's just a "frightened" flavorful word?

 

[Darklone]

Riders usually get +1 for attacking from higher ground... and yes, I use frightened as per the glossary. Seems like a natural reaction for me for a normal horse to flee in battle.

 

[Li Shenron]

Riders usually get +1 for attacking from higher ground... and yes, I use frightened as per the glossary. Seems like a natural reaction for me for a normal horse to flee in battle.

Yes, there are other minor things I didn't quote like the higher ground: Ride checks to guide with knees, mounted charges, falling from the mount... but they are secondary and after all they are much more clear than the basics to me

But the rule about controlling the untrained mount seems to say that you make the check EACH ROUND. Does it mean that every round you fail (DC 20 is not that easy!) the mount flees and every round you succeed you have to go back to the combat ground? That would be a little ridiculous... Do you play that the first failure lets the horse flee until the combat is over? Or that the first success doesn't risk fleeing anymore?

What seems to me is that perhaps the word "frightened" is tossed in the sentence inappropriately, and in D&D words have a clear meaning ruleswise: frightened means frightened as per the DMG, and it clearly means that it should flee, and if unable to flee it has several penalties (checks, attacks, saves...). Here is says "horses are frightened by combat" and never mentions it again .

My current opinion is that it may mean nothing here: that the "frightened" thing refers only to the need to make a Ride check every round ol lose your actions (and if you succeed you still lose a MEA for the check).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way: what about the rest of my questions, have you played the same way or differently?

 

[Christian]

I don't think it's a mistake ... Horses are herbivores, their natural reaction to combat is to run away. If you want to fight from horseback, get a trained warhorse-trying to keep a riding horse from turning tail is a pain in the tuckus.

 

[Darklone]

I only have the SRD here..

But yes, I do think the horse is frightened. Why not? It's a pretty huge effort to train animals for war.

So it may be badly or ambiguous worded, but it makes sense IMHO.

 

[Li Shenron]

Oh no... look what I have just found in the SRD monster section, under "horse":

A light/heavy horse cannot fight while carrying a rider.

That may simply mean than a non-war horse may not use its attacks while carrying the rider? And instead a war horse can attack by spending its appropriate action (standard or FRA, depending on how many attacks).

A light/heavy warhorse can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check.

This complicates the whole thing. In the Ride section of SRD it says:

Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for warhorses or warponies.

Fight with Warhorse: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.

Ok, let's see if I can read it without falling into any contraddiction...

With a normal horse, no way to make it attack while you are riding it. It still gets a full round worth of actions to do anything else (a FRA or a standard+MEA), which probably simply means it is going to take a double move.

With a warhorse, you can have it make its attack(s) if at the beginning of the turn you succeed a Ride 10 as a free action. If you fail, the warhorse can still take for example a double move.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

This is freaking complex, has every one being played mounted combat often?

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

Personally I think it's pretty clear where the Ride skill says:

Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for warhorses or warponies.

Fail that ride check, lose all actions for the round.

Makes sense, though I'd also rule that since they used 'frightened', and the untrained mount can't flee (you're controlling it, fighting it to keep it where the fright is) that it gets the 'frightened, unable to flee' penalties.

But that would be a house rule.


Edit: Beaten to the punch badly

I'd say you got that last post right...

 

[Li Shenron]

Personally I think it's pretty clear where the Ride skill says:

Fail that ride check, lose all actions for the round.

Does the mount also lose its own round?

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

Does the mount also lose its own round?

Great - now we've reached another one of the points where the SRD is relatively unclear...

As was quoted by the SRD above:

Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.

Is the clearest cut you can get out of the SRD.

Since it moves AS YOU DIRECT it, and you've lost your actions due to a failed Ride check, it shouldn't go anywhere.

 

[Li Shenron]

Since it moves AS YOU DIRECT it, and you've lost your actions due to a failed Ride check, it shouldn't go anywhere.

Well it makes sense after all.

I know that if you WANT to fight a mounted combat you take a warhorse, as well as good mounted feats and high Ride skill. But if they are not mounted-oriented PCs?

I was thinking like the PCs are riding to their destination and are suddenly attack by mounted bandits. It makes for a good scene . I don't think they will likely dismount, but rather they'll try to improvise something and then ride away if it gets too difficult.

Anyway, I really want to know how it works