Mounts and mounted combat

[Jotun]

Aithne started this thread and said:

In the PH on page 138 it says that if your mount moves more than 5ft then you can only take a partial action.

Is this saying that if my character is riding a mount and it moves more than 5ft then my character only gets one attack? The mount gets one attack too?

In regards to the last question asked about the mount's attack, kreynolds, the monster poster, replied with:

NAFAIK.

Is this an acronym for "Not as far as I know"? I'm confused. Why can't the mount make a single move and then make a single primary attack?

Stalker0's post is probably the most valuable words in this whole thread. Good insight!

The banter on this thread between two of ENWorld's more prolific posters has gotten me all turned around. What part of this isn't true:

When mounted, no matter what kind of movement the mount makes, the rider can make a full attack but only with ranged weapons.

To make the range increments simple and the game move faster, suspend the rules of reality, and assume that all projectiles are fired at the middle of the mount's movement for that round.

In a melee situation, if the mount moves more than 5', only a single melee attack can be made by both rider and mount.

I'm not sure what exactly was being responded to here, but kreynolds wrote:

That, I could understand, but it makes no sense how you can take a full-attack action for ranged and not melee, especially given how abstract attacking on a horse is treated anyway.

As the mount is moving, the rider can be making ranged attacks. I like to think of it as there's more time to do so during the ride, but that's just my way of seeing it and it has nothing to do with the printed rules. After the mount has moved and entered melee, the rider can't use all of his or her attacks. It'd be just like moving more than 5' and making a full attack. A single attack is the only option.

I had a really hard time figuring all the mounted combat stuff out when I first started playing DND 3E. It wasn't until I had some "in game" experience that I was able to see the reasoning for the rules. I read another thread here on ENWorld that had a poll asking how many people don't have a group to play with. I'm surprised to see so many people don't. Do you guys/girls play DND with your friends?

 

[mikebr99]

I'll sit on kr's side of the fence on this one...


Mike

 

[kreynolds]

Is this an acronym for "Not as far as I know"?

Yup.

I'm confused. Why can't the mount make a single move and then make a single primary attack?

I'm not entirely certain that it can't. That's why I replied with "NAFAIK" instead of with absolute cetainty, because I'm not entirely certain.

As the mount is moving, the rider can be making ranged attacks. I like to think of it as there's more time to do so during the ride, but that's just my way of seeing it and it has nothing to do with the printed rules.

That makes sense, actually, but it still doesn't explain the wonkiness of ranged attacks being given so much freedom and leeway within the rules while melee attacks are not given as much breathing room. It's just downright wierd, and it doesn't flow well, like the rest of the rules tend to. That's basically why I stand by my interpretation.

I had a really hard time figuring all the mounted combat stuff out when I first started playing DND 3E.

Same here. I got stuck in that whole "What happens if your initiative is better than your mounts? Can you not move until your mount's turn?" That was a nightmare.

I don't experience mounted combat that much in game. It's very rare, so I have to constantly refresh myself on the rules. I suppose I might be having a hard time accepting the wonkiness of this because its been so long since I was involved in mounted combat. Maybe I had accepted it before. Can't remember.

It wasn't until I had some "in game" experience that I was able to see the reasoning for the rules. I read another thread here on ENWorld that had a poll asking how many people don't have a group to play with. I'm surprised to see so many people don't. Do you guys/girls play DND with your friends?

Yup. I game with a group of 5, sometimes 6.

 

[mikebr99]

I would agree that you can do a full attack with melee weapon(s)... they just might not all be at the same target, due to the mounts movement at the time.

YMMV

Mike

 

[kreynolds]

I would agree that you can do a full attack with melee weapon(s)... they just might not all be at the same target, due to the mounts movement at the time.

That makes me wonder...is there a super-duper version of Spring Attack out there? Something like Strafe Attack?

 

[mikebr99]

That makes me wonder...is there a super-duper version of Spring Attack out there? Something like Strafe Attack?

Best thing I could come up with is a 10th Fleetrunner of Ehellona (sp?), charging while spring attacking w/ power lunge feat.


Mike

 

[Vinyafod]

A fighter an foot moves 20ft. to his target and makes a single attack with his sword.
He can only make a single attack since he moved before his attack.

This same fighter sitting on a horse moves 20ft. to his target an can do a full attack action?
Is that what you're saying kreynolds?

 

[Artoomis]

And you can't use two weapons unless you can take a full-attack action, and it states, within this poorly organized and worded passage, that you can take a full attack action. Perhaps the error is the mentioning of the full attack action. That, I could understand, but it makes no sense how you can take a full-attack action for ranged and not melee, especially given how abstract attacking on a horse is treated anyway.

Actually, it makes perfect sense given the way that section is written.

I'll try and explain - this is a restatement of the way this works:

For melee weapons, if the mount moves more than 5', you only get one attack instead of a full attack action because you are not next to your opponent for the whole round. Now, since you did not take a move action yourself, you are still entitled to a move-equivalent action. So you could, for example, strike your opponent and move off (drawing an AoO, of course)

For ranged weapons, the above is not true because you don't need to be next to your opponent for the whole round to make a full attack with a ranged weapon. What this means is that if you don't move, but you are moving anyway (as in this case when you mount provides your movement), you can take a full attack action. For the sake of convenience (only one range, line of sight issues, etc.), all your attacks are rolled for at the point of mid-movement for the mount.

 

[Artoomis]

Of course, the rules assume a single regular-sized opponent. I suppose that if you extend the logic presented in the PHB you could take a full attack by swinging at multiple opponents as you move (of course, you'll draw multiple AoOs), or maybe multple swings at an extremely long opponent.

This would not be in accordance with the rules as written, but would follow the logic. It opens up a bit of a can of worms as to when you can mutiple attacks - if you get two attacks, and the two opponents were at the end of the movment, you should get one swing per PHB logic, but perhaps two swingd if one happened to be about halfway thruogh your movement.

I assume it's situations like the above why the rule is simply that you get one swing if you move.

 

[Artoomis]

In the PH on page 138 it says that if your mount moves more than 5ft then you can only take a partial action.

Is this saying that if my character is riding a mount and it moves more than 5ft then my character only gets one attack? The mount gets one attack too?

OR

Can my mount move and when I reach my target I can take a full round action or a standard action?

Aithne

The actual PHB text says that when taking a melee attack, you get a partial attack (meaning a single attack instead of a full attack) if your mount moves over 5'.

And yes, your mount would get an attack, too, if it moved only up to a single move.

A standard action? You could do that while moving - since the mount is providing your movement. In fact, you could do a move-equivalent action as well, becasue you are not moving, the mount is. Just no full attack. Not with a melee weapon, anyway.