Mounts - evasive maneuvers

[RangerWickett]

What would I need to do in order to get my mount to evade an opponent by keeping mobile. I've got a dire eagle mount, and its maneuverability is good. I expect to fight creatures with poor maneuverability, but which are much stronger than me (i.e., dragons), so my plan is to get my mount to ready an action so that once the dragon is twenty feet away, it will move up and over the dragon, such that the dragon won't be able to turn or rise to reach us. Or, if the dragon charges, we can just move so that we're no longer in a straight line for a charge.

I'm curious, though, how does one go about getting a mount to ready an action? I want to take my full attack with my bow, which is my action. Can I direct the eagle with my knees such that it knows to wait until the last minute to move, or does it require a trick for it to use this sort of maneuvering, or is it simply impossible?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Circles.....

Seriously. Your mount will have a tighter turning radius than the other critter, so you can keep 'ahead' of it by staying out of its turning field.

Keep in mind, if it has a breath weapon it might still be able to sneeze at you...

 

[RangerWickett]

Circles.....

Seriously. Your mount will have a tighter turning radius than the other critter, so you can keep 'ahead' of it by staying out of its turning field.

Keep in mind, if it has a breath weapon it might still be able to sneeze at you...

The breath weapon is an obvious problem, but I've got good Reflex saves, the eagle does too, and it has evasion (though I don't, as much as that doesn't make sense), so with resist energy I think I should be good.

If I can have my eagle ready an action to move, it's (relatively) easy to keep away from the dragon, but if I can't, then I have to move in such a way each round that the dragon can't possibly follow.

The concern is that while dragons have a bad turn radius, so if we were playing second by second I could outmaneuver them, on a round-by-round basis, if I'm on the same lateral plane as the dragon, it will always be able to turn to reach me, attack, and fly by (since no dragon should ever not have Flyby Attack). Even if I get behind it, I think it will be able to turn fast enough to get me and not end up stalling, and with Wingover it could do that every turn with ease.

If I ascend, however, dragons can't ascend in the same round they wingover, and their ascent angle is bad, so it's possible I could stay out of reach if I keep moving the fight up, climbing sixty feet per round with a double move. The dragon with Hover could still hover and climb after me with just one move action, since their speed is so ridiculously high.

I mean seriously, has anyone done the math here? A dragon with a fly speed of 200 can run at 91 miles an hour. I know dragons are supposed to be bad-ass and all, but that seems a little extreme to me. Even wyrmlings can go at 45 to 65 mph.

This is all just a conspiracy to give DMs the ability to let dragons escape more easily, before the heroes can take advantage of their sovereign right to kill sentient creatures, behead them, and mount the remains as trophies.

 

[Stalker0]

I would rule it as a trick you teach the mount. Although if the mount is fairly intelligent (like a pally's mount) it may know to do this on its own.

 

[MarkB]

Do you have access to buffing spells? Haste on your mount will help, gaining you an extra 30 feet of movement. Cloud Wings (Druid 2) from Spell Compendium gets you another 30 feet, and it's untyped, so it stacks. Wings of Air (Druid 2, Sor/Wiz 2), again from Spell Compendium, will boost your mount's manoueverability by one step to Perfect, which means you won't lose movement when performing any manouever, including climbing.

Assuming your dire eagle has similar speed to a giant eagle, that combo will put you at a speed of 140 with perfect manoueverability. Given all the movement the dragon will lose in turning, that should come close to evening the odds. If not, I suggest you look for further speed boosts that stack with haste, or some method of entangling or slowing the dragon.

I think it would require teaching your mount a new trick to have it Ready an evasive manouever. Alternatively, if you have access to Ranger or Druid spells, speak with animals would give you sufficient communication.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

This could turn out a little weird..

When the Dragon is close in, double move in an upward spiral to keep out of the dragons range...

Then the Dragon is sure to move out, either a run or a double move, so that it can sweep back in.. which is where the 'ready' trick would have to come in.
Thinking about it, I would allow this to be a trick the mount could be trained on, but would require both mount and rider to use a 'ready' action...since you need to stay on the same intitiative. {RAW}

{this is the HR parts...}If the mount is trained with this new trick, the rider could ready to do something else... fire a weapon..whatever. If not, the rider would need to ready a Ride check to get the mount to act appropriately.... something like a DC 15 +{Enemy level - mount level}

The weird part would be if the ready action is not triggered.. you need to maintain some movement, using at least one move action per round. If the ready action is not triggered you would stall.




{ oops.. I just noticed, this is the Rules forum.... this topic wanders into house rules territory as RAW does not cover this aspect of the Ride skill....}

 

[RangerWickett]

This could turn out a little weird..

When the Dragon is close in, double move in an upward spiral to keep out of the dragons range...

Then the Dragon is sure to move out, either a run or a double move, so that it can sweep back in.. which is where the 'ready' trick would have to come in.
Thinking about it, I would allow this to be a trick the mount could be trained on, but would require both mount and rider to use a 'ready' action...since you need to stay on the same intitiative. {RAW}

{this is the HR parts...}If the mount is trained with this new trick, the rider could ready to do something else... fire a weapon..whatever. If not, the rider would need to ready a Ride check to get the mount to act appropriately.... something like a DC 15 +{Enemy level - mount level}

The weird part would be if the ready action is not triggered.. you need to maintain some movement, using at least one move action per round. If the ready action is not triggered you would stall.




{ oops.. I just noticed, this is the Rules forum.... this topic wanders into house rules territory as RAW does not cover this aspect of the Ride skill....}

I'm cool with house rules if indeed the RAW provides no guideline. I'll propose it to the GM. However, my dire eagle has good maneuverability, so it can hover.

Actually, I'm curious in general, can you ready an action to move in response to an attack so that you move out of range? What if you see where a dragon is aiming a breath weapon? Can you move out of its area?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I think a valid ready action trigger is "I ready to move out of the way of the dragons attack"

The dragon could then redirect the attack and still possibly hit you.. or target someone else. You would be limited to one movement for the round and, as you mentioned, dragons move really really fast

 

[Thanee]

Actually, I'm curious in general, can you ready an action to move in response to an attack so that you move out of range? What if you see where a dragon is aiming a breath weapon? Can you move out of its area?

While this is technically allowed in the rules, I would probably restrict this kind of action, because it is rather abusive. It breaks the abstract nature of combat, where things are put into a sequence, although they happen simultaneously.

Bye
Thanee

 

[MarkB]

While this is technically allowed in the rules, I would probably restrict this kind of action, because it is rather abusive. It breaks the abstract nature of combat, where things are put into a sequence, although they happen simultaneously.

Bye
Thanee

I don't think it's too bad in general, because the character in question is restricted to taking two or fewer move actions in combat, so can't take any effective offensive actions - they're concentrating purely upon dodging.

If it bothers you that creatures can effectively use it to out-manouever opponents who should be more agile, one possible way to rule it would be to say that if a character dodges in this fashion, his opponent is considered not to have used an attack yet, and can continue with his move action if he has movement left. In the case of a dragon, its superior speed would allow it to continue pursuing a target that had dodged, and probably still succeed in closing in to make its attack.

As a similar example, the spell stay the hand from PHBII is an immediate-action spell that prevents an opponent from attacking you if you cast it when he declares the attack - but it does not cause the opponent to waste his action. He can still attack a different target, but his attack is at a -4 penalty.