Mounts - Some Important Questions

[JiggleFloyd]

Hello Fellow D&D Fans,

I have some questions about mounts that the D&D Compendium did not completely answer for me. Please provide me with some insight if you can.

Mounted Combat: Actions: On your turn, you and your mount combined can take a normal set of actions—a standard action, a move action, and a minor action. You divide these actions as you wish. Most commonly, your mount takes a move action to walk or fly, and you take a standard action to attack. You and your mount also share a single immediate action. If you and your mount separate, you still share one set of actions on that turn.

1) If I use an action point, can my mount use the extra action? Every turn you are allowed to share a set of actions with your mount, so I'm wondering if action points and extra actions work the same way.

For example: On my turn I use a minor action and my mount moves and uses a standard action. I then use an action point and also gain a bonus move action action (Pathfinder's Action Feature). Can my mount use the bonus move action and then use another standard with the action point?

2) If I have an item or feat that allows me to teleport can my mount teleport with me or will it separate me from my mount?

3) If I am allowed to shift due to powers or feats can I decide to shift with my mount?

 

[Klaus]

Yes, yes, yes.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

1) I believe this is the intent, yes. The PC and his mount have one action pool and anything which has an affect on that pool works for the entire PC+mount. So an AP spent by the character would allow the mount to take the action for instance.

2) No. Powers which have personal effects don't affect the mount. Fey Step for instance doesn't allow you to teleport with your mount. Its a bit less clear with say Deft Strike which gives movement and an attack since the mount is capable of executing that movement mode. A real rules stickler DM might have a problem with that but it seems reasonable in general.

3) Again this falls under the heading of personal effects only work on yourself. You could use a power on your mount if that power say allows its target to shift then you would be carried along, but if you have a power which allows YOU only to move then it doesn't apply to the mount.

The simplest way to look at it is your mount is an ally. You can apply anything to it that you could apply to another PC in your party. For some characters this can be pretty limiting and may make them decide they aren't interested in mounted combat.

 

[bobcat_grad]

I have more questions to add to the mounted combat questions:

Prior to my questions about situations with mounted combat, let's remember a few things about it.

1) For the sake of attacks, you and your mount are considered in to take up the mount's space. Meaning while on your horse, you are 'large' and taking up 4 squares.

2) Single target melee and ranged attacks can target you OR your mount. Meaning, the monsters will have to declare if they're going after you or the mount if you are on it.

3) Burst and area attacks target you AND the mount.

4) You and you mount share a set of actions. Typically this mean if you are on your mount, you will take a standard action, your mount will move, and either can do a minor (most likely you). If you aren't on your mount, this still applies. Your mount could take all three actions while you stand there, or the other way around, or you could split your actions between you and your horse.

But there are few situations I can foresee that may cause some rules questions, and I don't see anything that addresses them anywhere. I'd like to get community so I know how to handle these situations at the table (I'm running a campaign where all of the characters just got horses for a cross-wilderness journey and I could expect them to come across encounters while on their horses where they choose not to dismount prior to combat or aren't given the chance).

A) Say a monster has a power to dominate and does so to a mount that you are on. I would assume that means on your turn, I as DM could make your mount run away. But you as the character are NOT dominated, so you would get to take your actions. The problem is you share you set of standard, minor, move with the mount. Sooo... what happens? Do I as DM get to go first and make your mount run away with you on it? Or do you get to use your standard to get off first (mounting/dismounting is a standard), then you get your minor, and then I get to make your mount run away?

B) Similar situation with this question. If a close burst attack hits you and not your mount that includes a dazed effect, what happens? Since you are dazed, does that mean you and your mount only get one action? Or you only get one action, but your mount gets to use the other two?

C) Immobilization - similar question again (although this one is a little easier). If one of you is immobilized, but the other is not - what happens? If you are on the horse and immobilized - does that mean you can't dismount? If your horse is immobilized, does that mean you could use a standard to dismount, move to get away from the horse and a minor?

D) Mount Healing - most mounts don't have healing surges. Does that mean there's no way to heal them? Between fights, do they get any ability to heal with short rests?

I'd really like to get community feedback on this soon as I expect some situations to come up in our group's sessions soon. Otherwise, I'll just have to handle it on a situational basis and come up with our own set of rules as we go that we will stick to until we find an official ruling.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

A) This one is a bit undefined. I would say if the mount is dominated then it only gets to use one action and the monster chooses it. Since it is YOUR turn however you decide the order of actions taken and since the PC is not dominated its up to him what he does. He could use his standard action to dismount for instance. In fact it seems to me that the PC gets to decide how to use any and all of the actions on himself and all the mount is left with is the 'dregs', at which point the monster can dictate how the one action the mount gets is used. The DM of course may decide to do this in some other fashion if he sees fit, the rules really only cover this kind of thing incidentally and may not work out the way you desire.

B) Dazed simply says that you can only use a single action. You still get the normal allotment of actions. Thus my take is that the mount can use them normally since they exist but the PC can only use one of them. In effect being dazed while mounted is less limiting than when on foot. If the mount is dazed it may well not really be limiting at all. If BOTH are dazed, well you can argue they each get to use one action but again I would think the DM may want to interpret this appropriately as it isn't really specifically covered.

C) I would agree with your interpretation on this one entirely. Again, it may actually not inconvenience the PC at all to be immobilized.

D) All creatures have 1 HS per tier. So even the most basic Riding Horse has one HS. As an ally of the PCs it can benefit from healing in the same fashion as a PC though note that it doesn't have a Second Wind and normally will die at 0 HP (again the DM has leeway to decide exactly what happens to the mount at or below 0).

 

[Mahali]

A) I'd use the Standard to move the mount away and let the player dismount as a move action. This doesn't nerf the dominate effect and allows the player to dismount.

B) Since you're dazed and limited to the one action, you can take 1 action or command your mount to perform one action.

C) Dismount lets you move adjacent to the mount. So if the mount is immobilized it's not an issue. If you're immobilized, by RAW, you can't dismount. I'd allow it and require the mount to be moved adjacent to your suare.

D) Mounts are monsters so they have 1 HS per tier. Most have no way to spend them in combat, without help, and therefor require a short rest to do so.

 

[spayne]

4) You and you mount share a set of actions. Typically this mean if you are on your mount, you will take a standard action, your mount will move, and either can do a minor (most likely you). If you aren't on your mount, this still applies. Your mount could take all three actions while you stand there, or the other way around, or you could split your actions between you and your horse.

"If you and your mount separate, you still share one set of actions on that turn" is what the rules say for when you get separated from your mount. Notice that it says nothing about subsequent turns. I believe this means that when you are not actually mounted on a creature, it is not considered to be your mount, and the mounted combat rules of sharing actions do not apply. The DM would control the creature until you mount it again.

 

[JiggleFloyd]

1) I believe this is the intent, yes. The PC and his mount have one action pool and anything which has an affect on that pool works for the entire PC+mount. So an AP spent by the character would allow the mount to take the action for instance.

2) No. Powers which have personal effects don't affect the mount. Fey Step for instance doesn't allow you to teleport with your mount. Its a bit less clear with say Deft Strike which gives movement and an attack since the mount is capable of executing that movement mode. A real rules stickler DM might have a problem with that but it seems reasonable in general.

3) Again this falls under the heading of personal effects only work on yourself. You could use a power on your mount if that power say allows its target to shift then you would be carried along, but if you have a power which allows YOU only to move then it doesn't apply to the mount.

The simplest way to look at it is your mount is an ally. You can apply anything to it that you could apply to another PC in your party. For some characters this can be pretty limiting and may make them decide they aren't interested in mounted combat.

Thanks for your feedback. I received two different opinions from two different individuals so far so I want to keep the discussion going and get more input from people.

Klaus said "yes" to all three of my questions but offered no explanation. AbdulAlhazred said yes to the first question and no/maybe to the other two.

I tend to agree that question 2 is usually no, but I think question 3 seems to be a question about whether or not mounts can move with the PC's voluntary movement rather than about whether a mount use the PC's personal effects. The PC has the choice to let the mount move with him in the case of forced movement, it is only reasonable that voluntary movement has the same ruling.

Mount and Rider: Forced Movement: If an attack that forces movement targets you but not your mount, you can choose for your mount to also be affected, so that you and your mount continue to move together. If you don’t want your mount to be affected, you can be pushed off your mount if the forced movement carries you out of the mount’s space.

1) Can a PC decide to use a move action while on a mount (and move the PC's speed)? This is normally less effective, but can you do it? If so, then that means mounts can move with the PC's voluntary movement. If not, then that means it is impossible for a PC to use a move action while riding a mount, which may be the case, I don't know.

The only time a mount would not be able to move with a PC voluntarily is if it were immobilized or slowed or something. Teleportation would also not work unless the mount could normally teleport; the voluntary movement would have to be something possible for the mount to do in other words.

Thoughts?

 

[bobcat_grad]

"If you and your mount separate, you still share one set of actions on that turn" is what the rules say for when you get separated from your mount. Notice that it says nothing about subsequent turns. I believe this means that when you are not actually mounted on a creature, it is not considered to be your mount, and the mounted combat rules of sharing actions do not apply. The DM would control the creature until you mount it again.

That's a really good point. So, once off of the mount, I as dm could have the mount stand still or wander around the board.

 

[JiggleFloyd]

"If you and your mount separate, you still share one set of actions on that turn" is what the rules say for when you get separated from your mount. Notice that it says nothing about subsequent turns. I believe this means that when you are not actually mounted on a creature, it is not considered to be your mount, and the mounted combat rules of sharing actions do not apply. The DM would control the creature until you mount it again.

Wow, nice catch! I did not realize that, I thought it continued as well but you are correct.