Move Silently Question

[drnuncheon]

But using Kreynold's way he still wouldn't keep up.

Target moves 60ft (two 30ft moves)

No, he doesn't.

The 'target' moves 30', because he is walking. He's only moving 60' if he hustles, aka jogs. That's why it doesn't make any sense - letting someone move silently 30' per round means that they are moving at full walking speed with no penalty. That doesn't fit logic, and it doesn't fit examples elsewhere in the rules (the Listen skill, as noted above).

J

 

[The Souljourner]

quote:Originally posted by The Souljourner
KReynolds, you had mentioned that the daily overland movement for a 30' race was 32 - that's actually for 40' movement...

Heh. Now that's funny. That damn reply has been sitting in a text file waiting to be posted since last Thursday and I never noticed that.

Heh, that is pretty funny. I had actually planned on replying right after you posted, but the boards started flaking out, so the reply sat in a text file for a couple days, and now I'm at work so I don't have access to it, but I was re-reading stuff and stumbled over your post again. Not that it's all that important, but it is amusing the way these things turn out.

BTW, I wanted to say, even though we seem to take opposite sides a lot of the time, it's always good debating with you, KR.

-Nate, aka The Souljourner

 

[The Souljourner]

One more thing to throw on the fire... I think most of the people who dislike the half walking speed interpretation dislike it because of its impact on use of the skill in combat.

To that end, let me say this - if your sneaky guy wants to move silently during combat and not move at super slow speeds, he can probably take the -5 without a problem. Why? Because guys in combat are probably going to get gigantic penalties to their listen checks... I mean, how likely are you to hear a twig snap when you're busying beating on a guy in full plate with your warhammer? *BANG* *BANG* *CLANG* snap *BANG* *CLANG* ... There's no set increase to the DC for listening during combat, at least that I can find, but I would imagine it should be *at least* +5 to the DC.

Just a thought.

-Nate, aka The Souljourner

 

[IceBear]

No, he doesn't.

The 'target' moves 30', because he is walking. He's only moving 60' if he hustles, aka jogs. That's why it doesn't make any sense - letting someone move silently 30' per round means that they are moving at full walking speed with no penalty. That doesn't fit logic, and it doesn't fit examples elsewhere in the rules (the Listen skill, as noted above).

J

I was talking about a typical combat round where he took two move actions. I agree 100% that you're walking 30ft per round (or 15ft per round if moving silently) by the rules, but I'm going to go with 1/2 speed when dealing with combat actions.

Again, I AGREE that your interpretation is the right one (though you seem to be comparing apples and oranges here because anyone using kreynold's interpretation would have one moving at 60ft and the other at 30ft - they wouldn't say one walks 30ft and the other moves silently 30ft), but for ease of use during play I'm going to use 1/2 speed for simplicity. I don't want the rogue to have to spend a full round action to move 15ft when he could move 15ft with his move and then attack. That's all.

As pointed out, the sounds of combat would probably cancel it out anyway.

Bottom line, yes, I think you're right by the rules, but I'm going to use kreynold's interpretation as my house rule as it's simpler for me and I don't think it's going to unbalance anything.

IceBear

 

[Antikinesis]

The character can move up to one-half the character's normal speed at no penalty.

This restriction is applicable to the characters' speed. Not their walking distance, not their hustling distance, not running distance... their speed.

If a character's base ("normal") speed is 30 feet, moving silently at no penalty reduces his speed to 15 feet. From the infamous Movement and Distance table of the SRD, that's a walk/hustle/run distance of 15/30/60 feet.

Interpolating the rules for hampered movement: "When movement is hampered, multiply the standard distance by the movement penalty (a fraction) to determine the distance covered.". Trying to move silently can be regarded as hampering yourself for the benefit of the skill.

-AK

 

[kreynolds]

BTW, I wanted to say, even though we seem to take opposite sides a lot of the time, it's always good debating with you, KR.

Thanks, Nate. Same to you.

 

[kreynolds]

Walking is not moving at half your movement rate.

You can move 30 feet with a move action (when you also use a standard, such as an attack) because it is mini-hustle. This is a fact.

Now, if you can hustle 30 feet in a standard move, then how many actions does it take to move 30 feet at normal speed (without hustling)?

 

[maddman75]

I'm with KReynolds here. This is my interpretation.

- Move Silently allows you to move half your speed at no penalty.
- A typical human rogue has a speed of 30'
- You can move with a move equivelent action.
- You can do a MEA and then take a standard action.
- If you wish, this second action could be another move.

Therefore, a double move is actually moving your speed, then moving your speed again. So this rogue could move 60' in one round, assuming he wasn't being quiet about it and didn't do anything else.

So the rogue moves 15' silently at no penalty. This takes a MEA. He still has a standard action left. He could attack, fire a bow, or tie his shoe. I see no reason he couldn't slink another fifteen feet. From what I've read, the rules referencing the difference between a hustle and a walk, etc. that drnuncheon keeps referencing is more for out of combat judgement, where this is in combat judgement.

 

[IceBear]

Yeah, basically if you say the rogue can only move 15ft per round while moving silently, we've some how turned the use of the skill into combat into a full round action (unless we're going to allow the rogue to move 7.5 ft - which doesn't fit into the 5ft square grid that 3E likes - and then take an action).

It's just simpler to say that the rogue's speed has been reduced to 15.

IceBear

 

[The Souljourner]

You can move 30 feet with a move action (when you also use a standard, such as an attack) because it is mini-hustle. This is a fact.

Now, if you can hustle 30 feet in a standard move, then how many actions does it take to move 30 feet at normal speed (without hustling)?

If a hustle is twice as fast as a walk, and you can hustle 30' using a MEA, then walking is a 15' MEA, so to walk 30' in a round would require two MEAs, which makes sense with the overland distances/speeds. It's assumed you're constantly walking (which translates to MEA/MEA as your actions), and you move 30' per round when walking.

The difficulty here is how you define "normal speed". People in my camp believe normal speed means walking speed, which is 15' per MEA. People in KR's camp believe it means "the distance you can normally move during a MEA". Who is right? Well, obviously me, but I may be a little biased.

-Nate, aka The Souljourner