Movement and attacks with haste

[Gromm]

One page 123 under multiple attacks it clearly states that "a character with more than attack per round must use the full attack action in order to get more than one attack"

Which is explained in detail on the next page.

The thing you're having problems with is that the general rules don't consider having haste up. Normally you DO need a FA to use all your attacks. If you have Haste up, its not a normal situation, you get more than one standard action that round. You also get a partial action that can be used for whatever you want (even attacks or spells).

 

[Mordeth]

I agree

That last post in my name was from Mordethdenied, he is a real life friend... just couldnt quite seem to grasp it without the ok from WoTC.

He just thinks that its too powerful to be able to make a FA option and a normal move as well. He says it creates situations where a monster with high BAB could never be cornerd. Ie... 5 foot step, 6 attacks, then move 30' away.

My counter was thats gonna suck if you are trying to solo that creature. Thats what teamwork is for.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: I agree

Ie... 5 foot step, 6 attacks, then move 30' away

Actually, you can't do that, even if you are hasted. If you take any kind of move action during a round, you cannot take a 5-foot step during that same round. So, if hasted, the monster could take a 5-foot step, take a full attack action, but it couldn't then take a full move, as it already took the step.

 

[Mordeth]

But then...

Quote....

---So, if hasted, the monster could take a 5-foot step, take a full attack action, but it couldn't then take a full move, as it already took the step.---

That is a normal round WITHOUT haste....

I need to reread the rules on that.... I know you cant take two 5'foot steps....

 

[kreynolds]

Re: But then...

Quote....

---So, if hasted, the monster could take a 5-foot step, take a full attack action, but it couldn't then take a full move, as it already took the step.---

That is a normal round WITHOUT haste....

I was actually talking about a round with haste. When you take a 5-foot step (not a 5-foot move), you forfeit any movement for the rest of the round. Conversely, when your round includes any move, you forfeit the 5-foot step.

So, even hasted, you cannot perform this for the round: 5-foot step, full attack action, move (haste action).

This also depends upon whether or not you see the haste partial action as part of your "total round" or as a separate "mini-round". I see it as part of your "total round", and I believe that's how the rules intended it to be, though the issue has been argued so many times it hardly has a meaning anymore.

 

[Artoomis]

Since things have kind of gone 'round and 'round, I'll remnd everyone:

Haste gives you an extra partial action. This kind of splits youir round into two parts - well, mostly.

The Sage has ruled:

1. Only 1 5-foot step per round, even when hasted.

2. If you charge in either the regular or extra partail action, ALL your movement must be in a straight line (not just your movement while charging (or partial charging).

3. You may combine the regular action and the extra partial action to cast a spell with a full-round casting time.

Other than that, the partial action and regular action are independent.

Comments:

Many folks disagree with #1, viewing the extra partial action as totally independent of the regular action.

#2 is actually adding to the rules, as the rule for straight-line movement is not "per round" but, rather, just while charging. By the rules, once the charge is over you should be able to do whatever you want, as in an extra Partial Action from Haste, but by the Sage you cannot - any movement must continue to be in a straiught line.

#3 is an odd ruling - I can only say that the rules interpretations seem to favor spell casting over melee.

 

[kreynolds]

Many folks disagree with #1, viewing the extra partial action as totally independent of the regular action.

#2 is actually adding to the rules, as the rule for straight-line movement is not "per round" but, rather, just while charging. By the rules, once the charge is over you should be able to do whatever you want, as in an extra Partial Action from Haste, but by the Sage you cannot - any movement must continue to be in a straiught line.

#3 is an odd ruling - I can only say that the rules interpretations seem to favor spell casting over melee.

Thanks for the refresh, Artoomis. It's been a while.

Anyhow, I actually agree with all 3 of the rulings, as I view the haste partial action as part of your "total round" and not as a separate "mini-round". Though the 2nd ruling kinda makes me say "huh?", in the end, it makes more sense to me that way.

 

[Artoomis]

Thanks for the refresh, Artoomis. It's been a while.

Anyhow, I actually agree with all 3 of the rulings, as I view the haste partial action as part of your "total round" and not as a separate "mini-round". Though the 2nd ruling kinda makes me say "huh?", in the end, it makes more sense to me that way.

Ah, but if the Haste Partial Action is part of your "total round" then spells that take a full round to caste should STILL take a full round.

The rulings contradict themselves in that aspect.

Even so, the only one I really have heartburn with is #2. Once you are done charging, you are done, it seems to me.

In any case, the rulings exist, for those who choose to follow them.

For ease of play, you might choose to ignore # 1 and #2. If you do, then you would:

Take an action (either normal or partial).

Stop

Take your other action. Without regard for what you did first.

We don't play that way in our group, but it might be easier. Even if skipping ruling #1 would be against a strict reading of the rules.

Of course, all of his comes about because of the Haste spell introducing the concept of an "extra" partial action without explaining how that works in the game mechanics..

 

[kreynolds]

Ah, but if the Haste Partial Action is part of your "total round" then spells that take a full round to caste should STILL take a full round.

Nope. You are effectively speeding yourself up so that you can accomplish more in the same amount of time. It doesn't extend your round. You simply get faster.

Having the opinion that Haste extends your round is bound to completely jack up your perspective on how actions relate to one another within an given time frame, yada yada yada, etc, etc, etc...

You could argue against me until blue in the face but nobody has come close to defeating this logic. Besides, it works for me.

So, to clarify by referring to your previous three points, if haste simply makes you faster, then...

1) You are still limited to one 5-foot step per round anyways, so there's no argument there, well, at least not a decent one.

2) This still doesn't fully explain the charging thing, but I don't know that anything will.

3) Taking less time to cast a full-round or longer spell makes perfect sense, especially if you view haste as speeding you up and not simply "adding another action".

Anyhow, that's my take on this whole thing.

 

[Mordeth]

Good way of putting it.

I agree