MtG the RPG

[Pergentile]

Poision counters will work the same way they do in standard magic, execpt it will take 20 counters to bring the health to zero.

Poison does not "bring health to zero". When you have X poison counters, you lose. This, in D&D, would translate into "You are dead", which would be -10 life.

Storm goes off of every spell that was cast before it by any mage.

In the initiative, or in the ecnounter? The first would mean it is UP, the latter would be OP.

Card draw is going to allow you to swap a spell from your list of known to your list of prepared as long as it hasnt been cast. (Like if you have used all 4 of your prepared lightning bolt spells, you cant repace one of them with a shock if you were to draw a card)

So it's not card DRAW, you have turned card draw into card tutoring, and have removed the tutor cards? *facepalm*

If an artifact is "destroyed" it can be repaired for a small fee (and I do mean small) in just about any town.

This is setting specific. We went from a "D20 system", to a "3.5 alternative", and are now at a "3.5 campaign setting"... yes?

Shroud works just as it would in magic. No mage (not even its controller) can target it with any spell or ability

So shroud-lock shenanigans will be brought into D&D? The new permanent, one sided, and broken as hell AMF is born.

You have removed tutors, and non-basic lands, and you have changed several key abilities beyond recognition, even making them into other abilities...

Y U DO THIS?! You could make a separate and accurate D20 system that does MtG justice, but instead you try to crossbreed it with a current D20 system...

Also, side question. You DO have licensing rights... right? I would hate for a group of over-eager fellows to have the pants sued off of them...

 

[MtGtheRPGDM]

Poison does not "bring health to zero". When you have X poison counters, you lose. This, in D&D, would translate into "You are dead", which would be -10 life.


In the initiative, or in the ecnounter? The first would mean it is UP, the latter would be OP.


So it's not card DRAW, you have turned card draw into card tutoring, and have removed the tutor cards? *facepalm*


This is setting specific. We went from a "D20 system", to a "3.5 alternative", and are now at a "3.5 campaign setting"... yes?


So shroud-lock shenanigans will be brought into D&D? The new permanent, one sided, and broken as hell AMF is born.

You have removed tutors, and non-basic lands, and you have changed several key abilities beyond recognition, even making them into other abilities...

Y U DO THIS?! You could make a separate and accurate D20 system that does MtG justice, but instead you try to crossbreed it with a current D20 system...

Also, side question. You DO have licensing rights... right? I would hate for a group of over-eager fellows to have the pants sued off of them...

Where to even start. When sitting down and doing the original concept for the game our main goal was to translate as many cards as faithfully as possible, without breaking things, and keeping things fun. That being said ill try and respond to each of your points.

Poison counters have to work a little differently, remember this isnt a 1-1 game. This is a RPG where there are multiple "players" in the game. Making it to where as soon as a someone got 20 posion counters they were straight up dead would make creatures with infect far to over powered.

And I dont see how storm for the initative is under powered. Especially if you delay your turn and go last. If there are 4 mages in play, and each of the 3 infront of you cast 2 spells each, you cast 1 spell then a storm spell you are taking about storm 7 How is that underpowered?

Card-vantage is a powerful powerful thing in Magic. I myself wrote an article or Star City Games many years ago about the most under rated card vantage cards in the game. (FutureSight and AK were on the list) We felt that drawing cards needed to be powerful in MtG the RPG as well. So we gave it access to your unprepared spells. It also has a backended blade, if you can force your opponent mage to draw a card, they must change some of the spells around from their spellbook.

Creatures with shroud in MtG are powerful, think about Troll Astetic for example, shroud and regen. The difference in MtG the RPG is that you can make your own creatures attack someone elses, so troll astetic isnt as powerful since he could be killed multiple times a turn and the odds are they couldnt regen him more than once if they had cast anything else that turn.

And you are correct. We could have built a d20 RPG where you had a deck of magic cards and you just played it out on a grid. But how accesable would that game be? New players would need to not only buy their D&D books but also thousands of dollars worth of magic cards. That seems counter productive.

And again, legal questions are for attorneys, I am not an attorney. I went to school for philosophy and psychology. Not law.

 

[Pergentile]

Consider the mana cost of Storm cards, and their general rarity.
Great, I put my initiative to last (already a huge disadvantage), then must pay... 27 mana for a dragonstorm, yes? and HOPE that everyone else has played the max number of spells they can, and the opposing team is stupid enough not to have a single counter spell ready in case a "bomb' drops.
Do you REALLY disagree that this would be less favorable?
Specifying specific unrealistic conditions where something could work does not do a good job of arguing that it is not UP.

Also, if a group of four players decide to work with synergy, and focus their general strategy around poison, why should they suffer? If something is OP because of TEAMWORK then that should NOT be a problem! Have you ever played Two-Headed Giant? What are you going to do about Elves and slivers? Most of them are common or uncommon, meaning they will be cheap to play in your MtGRPG, but will be almost un-matchable.

If the opposing team spends all their attacks to kill a single creature of mine with almost no offensive capabilities, it is OBVIOUSLY doing its job. Green is also the Mana color, and a Green Mage should have more mana than any other mage, if you want to be accurate, yes?

In general, since you INSIST this is a team game, then should it not be based on the Two-Headed Giant game-style? It seems like you are trying to breed '1 vs 1 magic' with '4 vs everything D&D'. Should it not be styled after the team-play that already exists in MtG in order for it to mesh best? It seems a lot of your perception is derived from personal experience of 1v1 play. That does not seem to be a good starting point.

We could have built a d20 RPG where you had a deck of magic cards and you just played it out on a grid. But how accesable would that game be? New players would need to not only buy their D&D books but also thousands of dollars worth of magic cards. That seems counter productive.

Wow, that is a pretty specific type of D20 system you exampled there, how does that specific example address my comment?

 

[MtGtheRPGDM]

Consider the mana cost of Storm cards, and their general rarity.
Great, I put my initiative to last (already a huge disadvantage), then must pay... 27 mana for a dragonstorm, yes? and HOPE that everyone else has played the max number of spells they can, and the opposing team is stupid enough not to have a single counter spell ready in case a "bomb' drops.
Do you REALLY disagree that this would be less favorable?
Specifying specific unrealistic conditions where something could work does not do a good job of arguing that it is not UP.

Also, if a group of four players decide to work with synergy, and focus their general strategy around poison, why should they suffer? If something is OP because of TEAMWORK then that should NOT be a problem! Have you ever played Two-Headed Giant? What are you going to do about Elves and slivers? Most of them are common or uncommon, meaning they will be cheap to play in your MtGRPG, but will be almost un-matchable.

If the opposing team spends all their attacks to kill a single creature of mine with almost no offensive capabilities, it is OBVIOUSLY doing its job. Green is also the Mana color, and a Green Mage should have more mana than any other mage, if you want to be accurate, yes?

In general, since you INSIST this is a team game, then should it not be based on the Two-Headed Giant game-style? It seems like you are trying to breed '1 vs 1 magic' with '4 vs everything D&D'. Should it not be styled after the team-play that already exists in MtG in order for it to mesh best? It seems a lot of your perception is derived from personal experience of 1v1 play. That does not seem to be a good starting point.

Wow, that is a pretty specific type of D20 system you exampled there, how does that specific example address my comment?

I thought seriously about how to answer this post. But then as I sat and read it a second time i realized that considering that you dont understand how storm even interacts with a counterspell that I should not worry about your assesment of such. But I will say this ONE thing. if you think 27 mana is alot to be paid for 6 massive dragon creatures of which each probably cost around 27? Do you really really think that is underpowered? Sunrise, sunset.

 

[Pergentile]

When a storm card is cast, a replicate of it is put on the stack for each spell played before it, therefore, if it is replicated 3 times, there are a total of 4 copies on the stack that need to be countered.
Nowhere in my post is it indicated that I do not.
Want to respond now, instead of being presumptuous and condescending? I am pretty sure that is frowned upon on these boards.

Edit: Lets add a hypothetical situation. a 4v4. One of the opponents is a counter-spell/controller, who only counter-spells until he can get out things that generate counter-spell effects without using his mana.
I am the one who saves mana to try and drop a bomb as soon as possible. That leaves 3v3 actively fighting it out. I play dragonstrorm for twenty seven!! mana, and we will say I get six copies of it. He plays two counterpsells, and we will say, two counter-spell effects (a non-retarded counter-speller would realize the restriction of spells per turn, and would adjust play style to cover that weakness), and I get two dragons. Upon the next initiative (since I am last), that same guy puts both the dragons back into my hand for two more mana, and he still has... 25ish? more mana than me.

This is accurate, yes?

(Jeez, people on here can be so defensive. Learn to take criticism better, before you post something like this thread, and your feelings won't get hurt.)

 

[MtGtheRPGDM]

I am sorry but I do not have the time to go through every possible play scenario. Yes, your ONE dragonstorm spell might have gotten countered but how many spells and abilites did he burn to stop your one spell. Not to mention that it would not be that hard to build the mana up once again. Magic is all about situations. Are you going to come across decks that can roll your world? of course. Some decks just have bad matchups against other decks, and just as that in MtG you might come across an enemy that you cant kill alone, that you will need the combined efforts of all your team to stop. But isnt that the fun of playing a game with your friends? To work together to overcome something that at first seems insermountable but after a little thought can be done? There is a counter for every deck in magic, but if you focus on stopping just one thing other things will roll your face. So you have to do everything you can to build your deck (and in MtG the RPG your spell book) to make sure you can still stop an enemy if they stop your first kill condition.

 

[kitcik]

People trying to sell new products during tough economic times need to be touchy and defensive - it is part of the mystique.

In all seriousness though I am waiting to see something tangible before I give further comments. I am skeptical but still hopeful...

Here are my current thoughts:

1 - this sounds more like a 4E product than a D20 product. If they really have the rights to use "Dungeons and Dragons" I would think WOTC would prefer a 4E product anyway (I am actually having trouble believing they licensed D&D to a D20 product given that they killed Crystal Keep and have abandoned the genre). I am not a fan of 4E but the advancements in cards sound more like 4E type stuff.

2 - to take it a step further, with only 5 classes that advance down a myriad of paths based on card selection, and the emphasis on dueling, this sounds even MORE like an MMO. In fact, as skeptical as I am about the playability of this as a face-to-face D20, I actually think it sounds great as an MMO and would buy it for sure.

Well, we shall see...

 

[MtGtheRPGDM]

Im not sure whos trying to sell what here? My friends and I are not doing this to take money. We have never will never ask for anything. Nore do we have anything set up to take donations. This is a fan project, that is ment for as many people to enjoy that wants to.

 

[pymander]

Where are the calm people?

In contrast to the bilious critiques floating around, I'm just going to say I look forward to reading the full write-up. Even good questions are ruined by hostile delivery and, as with all games, we can all use or adapt what we like for our own fun anyway.

Thanks for putting the time to begin working out this system.

 

[MtGtheRPGDM]

Thank you Pymander. The group is starting to form up to give this game its 1st real play through, if things go well it will infact come out of alpha phase and enter the beta arena (Things being posted on these forums) to be tested by the public at large.