Multi-classing, yay or nay?

[steenan]

I don't feel a need for multiclassing and I see it as a lack of consequence in design.

Either a game aims for flexibility or for encouraging certain archetypes.

For flexibility, some kind of a point-buy system is best, while classes create an unnecessary complication and restrict player choices.

For encouraging archetypes, well-designed classes are great. But then, multiclassing weakens and blurs the archetypes, so it is really counter-productive.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

Conan was just an example. It's probably not helpful to get too hung up on it, since even if you can find one class that fits, you then have to deal with Elric, The Grey Mouser, Batman...



Fair enough, but that would still seem to make him multi-class. Some other fictional characters certainly require some sort of multi-class-like mechanic to make them fit.

Now, one could argue that those characters aren't suitable for use as PCs in the game, but then I have to ask: why not? If a player wants a character "like Batman" or "like Conan" (or whatever), why is the game saying that they can't?

Additionally, if fictional characters require some sort of multiclassing to be modelled well (or, I suppose, they could just 'cheat'), then why aren't player characters allowed the same sort of flexibility/customisation? Shouldn't the goal be for them to have the same sort of depth as the heroes in the stories we're trying to emulate?

Thing is most main characters in books are Solo adventurers. They end up solving their problems on their own without the support of 3 other people. In many cases the problems they solve are already within their ability to solve them. This tends to lead to people overestimating the capabilities of a character because they overestimated the difficulty of the challenges the character faced.

Batman could be stated as a level 10 Rogue in 3.X, and Conan (in a version of 3.X that grants Fighters more skill points) a mid level Fighter.

 

[delericho]

Okay then, what about Catti-Brie? In the early books, she's very clearly a warrior. But later, she retrains as a wizard. How do you model that without multiclassing? Or is that simply not something that should be allowed?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Okay then, what about Catti-Brie? In the early books, she's very clearly a warrior. But later, she retrains as a wizard. How do you model that without multiclassing? Or is that simply not something that should be allowed?

Or Fafhrd. Or Grey Mouser. Or several of the characters from Thievs' World. Etc.

Many are the fantasy characters who are more than one thing (in game terms, classes) as they develop.

 

[Herschel]

I'm in favor of multiclassing, as long as it doesn't negatively affect the class system. AD&D and 4E did a pretty good job of allowing multiclassing without it harming the core class system. 3E did a bad job at this.

This.

 

[prosfilaes]

Okay then, what about Catti-Brie? In the early books, she's very clearly a warrior. But later, she retrains as a wizard. How do you model that without multiclassing? Or is that simply not something that should be allowed?

In D&D 3 (I don't know about 4), multiclassing doesn't usefully model that; you do that, and you're going to get an ineffective character. Making a fighter/wizard that's powerful enough to make an impact on both sides without overshadowing straight fighters and wizards is something that's hard in most systems, at least D&D-like ones. As such, it's not something that I would stress about allowing.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

I haven't read anything involving Catti-Brie for long long time so I largely can't comment on her.

One major
Historically D&D has used 4 different multi-classing systems.

1. Advancement Restart: The character stops being one class and restarts at level 1 in another class. In some advancement restart systems characters may have some hold over abilities. This is the system type the human only dual class system used in 1e and 2e. Gray Mouser is a good example of a (low level) Magic-User who dual-classed into Thief.
2. Parallel Development: The character advances 2 or more classes simultaneously. In many cases of this system the character must equally divide XP earned among all classes. This sort of system was used in 1e and 2e for the demihuman multiclassing rules.
3. Per Level Advancement: When a character advances in level he can choose to advance a level in any class that he has available to him. 3e used this system.
4. Dabbling: Characters can spend some resources in order to get some capabilities from other classes. 4e uses a version of this system.

 

[drothgery]

In D&D 3 (I don't know about 4), multiclassing doesn't usefully model that; you do that, and you're going to get an ineffective character.

Which is important if you're actually playing the game (and not doing a solo game or adventuring with similarly dis-optimizaed multiclassers); if you just want stats for a fictional character, that's fine. D&D 3.x multiclassing basically worked fine as long as you weren't a spellcaster (or manifester); dabbling in fighter was a good move for barbarians (and vis versa); fighter/rogues were better swashbucklers than Swashbucklers; etc.

 

[Herobizkit]

Multi-classing all the way. Did it in 1e, did it in 2e, did it in 3e, did it in PF, LOVE the Hybrid concept in 4e. There is no one class that will do everything I want in traditional D&D systems.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I haven't read anything involving Catti-Brie for long long time so I largely can't comment on her.

One major
Historically D&D has used 4 different multi-classing systems.

1. Advancement Restart: The character stops being one class and restarts at level 1 in another class. In some advancement restart systems characters may have some hold over abilities. This is the system type the human only dual class system used in 1e and 2e. Gray Mouser is a good example of a (low level) Magic-User who dual-classed into Thief.
2. Parallel Development: The character advances 2 or more classes simultaneously. In many cases of this system the character must equally divide XP earned among all classes. This sort of system was used in 1e and 2e for the demihuman multiclassing rules.
3. Per Level Advancement: When a character advances in level he can choose to advance a level in any class that he has available to him. 3e used this system.
4. Dabbling: Characters can spend some resources in order to get some capabilities from other classes. 4e uses a version of this system.

You forgot gestalting & hybridizing, which you could consider to be their own thing, or 3Ed & 4Ed's take on method #2.