Multi-classing, yay or nay?

[Ahnehnois]

Even in playing the Dragon Age crpg (which I liked), I found the idea of being stuck in one class unacceptably restrictive. If you look at how real people gain experience, they frequently make radical changes. Saying that you have to stick with the first class you take a level in is sort of like saying that you have to get a job that explicitly uses you undergraduate college major for your entire life. How many people do that? Similarly, fiction involves character *development* which typically entails more than saying "your attacks hit more often than they used to".

Classless systems of course model reality better, but if you're going to use classes, they should be flavorful archetypes designed to help beginners imagine their character in play, not straitjackets designed to prevent players from controlling their own characters.

3e multiclassing has some screwiness with the math (you really need to use pooled fractional base attack and saves for the system to work) and it does require a high level of system mastery, but it's still by far the best of D&D's many attempts to tackle the subject.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Agreed 100% on that last paragraph.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

Even in playing the Dragon Age crpg (which I liked), I found the idea of being stuck in one class unacceptably restrictive. If you look at how real people gain experience, they frequently make radical changes. Saying that you have to stick with the first class you take a level in is sort of like saying that you have to get a job that explicitly uses you undergraduate college major for your entire life. How many people do that?

That kind of sounds like the Advancement Restart multi-classing system I mentioned.

Level 5th Liberal Arts Major unable to find any acceptable intermediate or prestige class openings decides to restart as a level 1 Barista.

Similarly, fiction involves character *development* which typically entails more than saying "your attacks hit more often than they used to".

Often including "you become tougher, have greater will power, react faster, take harder hits before falling, and you are better able to perform your techniques."

 

[drothgery]

3e multiclassing has some screwiness with the math (you really need to use pooled fractional base attack and saves for the system to work) and it does require a high level of system mastery, but it's still by far the best of D&D's many attempts to tackle the subject.

Agreed 100% on that last paragraph.

I kind of think the acid test for a D&D multi-classing system is being able to do a fighter/mage that doesn't suck. And the 3.x/PF system seriously fails at that. The 1e/2e systems and the 4e systems were nowhere near as flexible, but you can get a viable fighter/mage out of them (well, in 1e/2e you can get a broken fighter/mage, since it's very sub-optimal mechanically for a non-human not to multiclass and the exponential XP tables mean you're rarely more than a level behind any single-class characters).

 

[Ahnehnois]

I kind of think the acid test for a D&D multi-classing system is being able to do a fighter/mage that doesn't suck. And the 3.x/PF system seriously fails at that. The 1e/2e systems and the 4e systems were nowhere near as flexible, but you can get a viable fighter/mage out of them (well, in 1e/2e you can get a broken fighter/mage, since it's very sub-optimal mechanically for a non-human not to multiclass and the exponential XP tables mean you're rarely more than a level behind any single-class characters).

To do a viable fighter/mage (3.X) you need some combination of a prestige class bandaid and a pooled fractional base magic bonus. Once you have those things, it does work, but I tend to agree that the core rules dropped the ball on multiclass casters. Again, this isn't a failing of the rules that let you multiclass, it's a failing of the rules for how casters advance.

That kind of sounds like the Advancement Restart multi-classing system I mentioned.

Level 5th Liberal Arts Major unable to find any acceptable intermediate or prestige class openings decides to restart as a level 1 Barista.

People don't forget their old lives as easily as 2e dual classing or other character respec rules would have it. For example, Lee Adama in BSG made a radical shift from fighter pilot to politician, but he remained excellent at flying.

Often including "you become tougher, have greater will power, react faster, take harder hits before falling, and you are better able to perform your techniques."

Staying single-classed and getting better is always an option. I'm just saying it shouldn't be the only option.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Said it before: I don't have a problem with what happens to multiclassed casters in 3Ed. So I stand by my agreement with the statement that I think the 3Ed multiclassing system is the best in D&D's history.

 

[Sammael]

I agree that 3.x multiclassing is the best in D&D history, but spellcasters were nevertheless severely limited under the system.

My own system revision resolves this by creating a number of feats that a multiclassed character can take to increase his effectiveness. These same feats also allow a character to "dabble" without truly multiclassing.

Additionally, spellcasting is now tied to the skill system, and since skill progress isn't (entirely) dependent on classes, it is possible to increase your character's efficiency merely by improving the appropriate skill.

Mind you, I have reworked the skill, feat, and spell systems in their entirety, so it's not really possible to implement this solution without converting your entire game to my rules.

Example 1: If a 10th level rogue with 4 ranks in Arcana takes a level of mage and picks Magic Missile as one of his spells, it will do 4d4+4 points of damage (1d4+1 per rank in Arcana).

Example 2: The same rogue wants to be able to cast some more powerful spells, so he takes the Practiced Arcanist feat. His 4 ranks in Arcana allow him to pick any tier 4 (or lower) spell, so he decides on Stoneskin. He can now cast Stoneskin once per day.