Multiattack

[KerlanRayne]

Say you are a Troglodyte with a base attack bonus of +6/+1. The full attack listed for the Troglodyte mixes a Club attack with two natural attacks of claw and bite. With the multi attack feat it gets, would that make your attacks +6/+4/+4/+1? It seems that the -2 penalty only applies to the natural attacks, and I know you can't use iterative attacks with natural attacks, but can you combine the two like that? If I add haste, I can choose which weapon the extra atack comes from, right?

KerlanRayne

 

[Li Shenron]

Say you are a Troglodyte with a base attack bonus of +6/+1. The full attack listed for the Troglodyte mixes a Club attack with two natural attacks of claw and bite. With the multi attack feat it gets, would that make your attacks +6/+4/+4/+1? It seems that the -2 penalty only applies to the natural attacks, and I know you can't use iterative attacks with natural attacks, but can you combine the two like that? If I add haste, I can choose which weapon the extra atack comes from, right?

KerlanRayne

I am not sure, but it looks right.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Say you are a Troglodyte with a base attack bonus of +6/+1. The full attack listed for the Troglodyte mixes a Club attack with two natural attacks of claw and bite. With the multi attack feat it gets, would that make your attacks +6/+4/+4/+1? It seems that the -2 penalty only applies to the natural attacks, and I know you can't use iterative attacks with natural attacks, but can you combine the two like that? If I add haste, I can choose which weapon the extra atack comes from, right?

KerlanRayne

The SRD is somewhat ambiguous on the matter:

Manufactured Weapons: Some monsters employ manufactured weapons when they attack. Creatures that use swords, bows, spears, and the like follow the same rules as characters, including those for additional attacks from a high base attack bonus and two-weapon fighting penalties. This category also includes “found items,” such as rocks and logs, that a creature wields in combat— in essence, any weapon that is not intrinsic to the creature.
Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual –5 penalty (or –2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon.

What this says without ambiguity is that a creature using only a manufactured weapon is treated like a character (i.e. one of the races from PHB), so gains iterative attacks based on BAB. It also says that a creature using both a manufactured weapon and natural attacks uses the manufactured weapon as its primary attack.

What it does not say is that the creature gains iterative attacks with the manufactured weapon when it also gets secondary attacks with its natural weapons.

However, the example of the marilith demon seems to confirm your interpretation, in terms of the number of attacks and their attack bonuses:

Full Attack: Primary longsword +25/+20/+15/+10 melee (2d6+9/19–20) and 5 longswords +25 melee (2d6+4/19–20) and tail slap +22 melee (4d6+4);...

Feats: ...Multiattack, Multiweapon Fighting, ...

However, the final attack you refer to - the one with the +1 bonus - is with the manufactured weapon. That is, your troglodyte would have a full attack: club +6/+1 melee and claw +4 melee and bite +4 melee.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[shilsen]

What Al'Kelhar said. A creature using a manufactured weapon gets iterative attacks with it. If also using natural weapons at the same time, they are considered secondary weapons (-5 to hit, 1/2 Str bonus to dmg). If the creature has the multiattack feat, the natural weapons are at a -2 instead of -5.

 

[jgsugden]

Just confirming the analysis above.

A troglodyte with a +6 BAB, multiattack and a weapon makes attacks as follows:

+6/+1 Weapon
+4 Claw (1/2 strength damage)
+4 Bite (1/2 strength damage)

This has been a great way for polymorphed rogues to get in some extra attacks to deal sneak attack damage at relatively high ABs.

 

[Darklone]

Does the polymorphed rogue get the Multiattack feat of the Trog? I don't think so... and I wouldn't allow a rogue without natural attack by himself to take the feat.

 

[KerlanRayne]

You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.

Multiattack has a B tag with it under troglodyte which means it's a bonus racial feat. So yes, you would get it with Alter Self and presumably Polymorph.

 

[Darklone]

Thanks, I didn't check whether it was a racial feat or not... weow. That's strong.

 

[glass]

...and I wouldn't allow a rogue without natural attack by himself to take the feat.

Why not? The character doesn't have to have natural attacks all the time, only when he wants to use the feat.

If his main combat strategy is based on polymorph or wildshape, then he will have had the natural attacks while he was earning his XP, after all.

glass.

 

[Darklone]

I go with at least 50% of the time when I consider to allow some buff things to act as prerequisites...

And I don't see "earning XPs" as killing monsters.