Multiclassing Feats & Powers

[lkj]

I understand the argument but it reeks of exploiting unclear wording and it is not congruent with the spirit of how everyone and everything else operates. It is not congruent with the uniformity the system tries to maintain.

At level 11 everyone gets an encounter power from their chosen specialization from entering the Paragon tier. I see no reason to give special and unique benefits to one character over another.

Believe me, as someone who loves multiclass characters I would love for this to work but at the end of the day it just screams unintended.

It's not an exploit. In order to get a paragon multiclassing you are giving up additional paragon class features. You are taking powers of a lower level than you would gain from a paragon path. Being able to trade up is the only thing that balances it out. And it's not like you are getting to trade extra powers up. You have to forgo trading up one of your primary class powers in order to do it. It's not extra at all. It's just more flexibility.

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[lkj]

By the way here's the question I sent customer service and the reply (just so it's clear what I asked):

If you opt for paragon multiclassing, which grants an encounter, utility, and daily power from your second class, are you allowed to swap those powers for higher level powers as you level up (pg 27-28).

For example, according to pg 27, at 17th level "you can replace any encounter attack power you know from your class with a new one of your new level." If I have the 7th level encounter power from my second class from paragon multiclassing, can I swap that power for a higher level power from my second class at 17th level?

Relevant rules text:

pg. 27-28: Under powers, for each of encounter, utility and daily powers, at certain levels you can replace one of those powers from your class with a new power of your new level or lower.

pg. 209: under paragon multiclassing: "you can choose to continue to gain powers from that class rather than take a paragon class." In return you gain an encounter, utility, and daily power from "your second class".

So, in essence, at those levels mentioned above, can I replace powers from my "second class" with higher level powers from "my second class"?

Normally, of course, paragon path powers are set-- there aren't any to swap with. So it's irrelevant. On the other hand, paragon multiclassing is not a paragon path. It's what you gain in place of it. You are in fact giving up class features to obtain it, and are in general gaining lower level powers than those granted by a paragon path.

The text on page 27-28 says you must swap powers 'of your class', but it does not specify whether 'your class' means only your primary class or also includes 'your second class' (the term 'second class' appearing in the paragon multiclassing text).

Ok. I've given you way too much info. The question itself is pretty simple.

Thank you for your help.

AD

Here's the answer:

Adrian,

Yes, the question is fairly simple and the answer is even simpler, yes you can.

Good Gaming!



Joe
Customer Service Representative
Wizards of the Coast
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST

 

[Zelc]

Interesting. So with paragon multiclassing, you really get an extra 13th level encounter power and not a 7th level encounter power, which from a cursory glance seems to be equal in power to the 11th level paragon path encounter power. So you basically trade the three paragon path class features for a swap of the at-will power.

I'm a big fan of that swap, since it may mean getting access to at-will powers that target two different defenses. Situationally, if you're playing a Human, you might be able to switch out a useless (due to a low ability score in your class's second attack stat) third at-will for an at-will that you can actually hit with. Still, I guess the paragon multiclassing loses out. An easy way to bump it up a bit would be to give an additional use per encounter/day of the power granted by the multiclass feat at levels 11 and 16.


Oh by the way, the power swap feats may be better than you give credit for, at least at with restricted sourcebooks. There are levels for certain builds where I look over the available options and none of them look good (hurray for the level 13 Charisma-focused low-Constitution Warlock). Power swap feats expand your options so you don't have to be stuck taking an unappealing power.

 

[Danceofmasks]

It's a level 7 encounter power.
'cos if you want to swap it out for a level 13 encounter power, you'd have to do it instead of a swap in your primary class.

 

[Zelc]

It's a level 7 encounter power.
'cos if you want to swap it out for a level 13 encounter power, you'd have to do it instead of a swap in your primary class.

Right, but you get swaps at level 13, 17, 23, and 27. You have 3 encounter powers from your primary class and 1 from your secondary class. Convenient, no?

 

[Danceofmasks]

Two primary and two from your secondary class, 'cos paragon multiclassing requires the power swap feat as well?

 

[Twilightwaits]

Multi-classing in 4E reminds me of the old Loony Toons cartoon with Daffy Duck.

"I've got this great trick, but I can only do it once!"

That said, yes, multi-classing pretty much is simply a way for you to add variety without becoming broken. Great in theory, but less than inspiring in application (from a CharOp standpoint, anyway. Personally, I like the RP flavor, but I'm odd.)

 

[toxicspirit]

There are levels for certain builds where I look over the available options and none of them look good (hurray for the level 13 Charisma-focused low-Constitution Warlock).

That brings to mind a question I have been meaning to ask. Do you have to swap Powers up? And do you have to take the Powers at those levels?

At level 13 for example, could you swap out a level 1 encounter attack for an extra (but different from what you already have) level 7 encounter attack instead of a level 13 Power?

 

[Danceofmasks]

page 27 & 28 ... when you swap, you can choose a lower level power if you want.

 

[toxicspirit]

Appreciated.