Multiheaded Template HD?

[Samnell]

I'm working on a five-headed behir for an upcoming 15th level game. Actually, I'll file off the serial numbers and call it a Blessed Temple Guardian of Tiamat or something like that. But anyway, I'm working with the multiheaded template in Savage Species. Adding 4 heads gives me a total of +8 HD per the template.

I went most of the way through applying the template and then discovered that at 17 HD, the behir gets a size increase to Gargantuan. I think the behir gets the size increase and the concommitant changes to its stats, but I'm not sure. Does my behir get super-sized?

Also, do I apply the CR increase for increasing the creature's size in addition to the CR bump for adding hit dice?

 

[Scharlata]

Hi!

[...]I went most of the way through applying the template and then discovered that at 17 HD, the behir gets a size increase to Gargantuan. I think the behir gets the size increase and the concommitant changes to its stats, but I'm not sure. Does my behir get super-sized?

As I would read the template, your multiheaded behir gets super-sized because the 8 additional HD (+2 per head) indicate the size change as per the Advancement entry in the MM. And, yes, I think that the now Gargantuan behir gets all of the benefits of increasing HD as indicated in the corresponding entries in the SS (Attacks: "The base attack bonus increase....", "Skills: "The creature gains additional skill points...", and Feats: "The creature also gains additional feats...").

Also, do I apply the CR increase for increasing the creature's size in addition to the CR bump for adding hit dice?

IMO, no, because the MM states that a) the base creature (behir) is a Huge creature [p. 25] and b) that only a size increase to Large or larger increases the CR to +1 [p. 294, Table 4-4]. The CR would be increased according to the SS's table "Challenge Rating" [p. 125]: CR +3 and an extra +4 [indicated according to the footnote 1] for heaving 4 extra heads with a breath weapon, for a total of +7. You may consider an additional CR increase of +1 or +2 [according to MM, p. 294, Table 4-4] for having 4 extra heads that can swallow whole creatures, which improves the combat ability in a minor/major way. That would make a grant total of +8 or +9, at your discretion.


A follow-up question arose IMHO: Is it possible to give a behir 11 additional heads? At first, I thought, yes, according to the SS: Limit on Additional Heads (11 additional heads for a Huge base creature). 11 additional heads would give the base creature 22 additional HD. So you'd have a 9 + 22 = 31 HD monster. According to the MM's Advancement entry, a behir can't have more than 27 HD. What would you rule? What has priority? The Advancement entry in the MM [3.5] or the Limit on Additional Heads entry in the SS [3.0/3.5]?

Kind regards

 

[glass]

I'm working on a five-headed behir for an upcoming 15th level game. Actually, I'll file off the serial numbers and call it a Blessed Temple Guardian of Tiamat or something like that. But anyway, I'm working with the multiheaded template in Savage Species. Adding 4 heads gives me a total of +8 HD per the template.

I went most of the way through applying the template and then discovered that at 17 HD, the behir gets a size increase to Gargantuan. I think the behir gets the size increase and the concommitant changes to its stats, but I'm not sure. Does my behir get super-sized?

Also, do I apply the CR increase for increasing the creature's size in addition to the CR bump for adding hit dice?

You could take the view that the HD increase indicates a size change as per the line in the MM.

Or, you could argue that the size increases on that line apply opnly to advancing by HD. In this case you are applying a template which happens to give HD instead, which is not quite the same thing, so the size increase does not apply.

Personally, I would reserve the right to interpret it either way based on what I felt made most sense given the specific combination of template and creature involved. In this case, it seems like either would make sense, so just go with which suits the encounter you want best.

If you do increase the size then do apply the CR adjustment (if there is one between Huge & Gargantuan). Obviously, if you don't, don't.

EDIT: I'd say that the second option was more consistent with the RAW, because the advancement line (if it gives a HD range) is about advancement by HD, not by template. But I doubt it is explicitly spelled out anywhere, so I wouldn't let it worry me.


glass.

 

[glass]

A follow-up question arose IMHO: Is it possible to give a behir 11 additional heads? At first, I thought, yes, according to the SS: Limit on Additional Heads (11 additional heads for a Huge base creature). 11 additional heads would give the base creature 22 additional HD. So you'd have a 9 + 22 = 31 HD monster. According to the MM's Advancement entry, a behir can't have more than 27 HD. What would you rule? What has priority? The Advancement entry in the MM [3.5] or the Limit on Additional Heads entry in the SS [3.0/3.5]?

I'd say, sure, a template can add additional HD regardless of what the advancement line says.


glass.

 

[Pinotage]

I'd say, sure, a template can add additional HD regardless of what the advancement line says.


glass.

Yip. Technically a two-headed Behir isn't a Behir anymore so you can do with advancement what you like!

Pinotage

 

[Scharlata]

Yip. Technically a two-headed Behir isn't a Behir anymore so you can do with advancement what you like!

Hoody-hoo!