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<blockquote data-quote="MMDuran" data-source="post: 4801050" data-attributes="member: 11781">My interpretation is to go ahead and separate &quot;effects&quot; from Effects.&nbsp; So, if say there are two prismatic shards that have a Dazed (save ends) power and they both hit you with their daze beams, then you only have one Dazed (save ends) effect on you and are only making one Save to remove it rather than two (as those two beams don't Daze you via different Effects; they are both bright flashy lights from the same type of monster).&nbsp; This keeps things from getting -too- tiresome if you're, say, fighting a horde of scorpions with poison -- if you're suffering a scorpion venom Effect, you'll only ever suffer -one- scorpion venom Effect (unless you come across Momma Scorpion who has some sort of giant deadly variation on the stuff).&nbsp; If a warlock then hits with a Dazed + ongoing 5 radiant damage (save ends both) power, clearly a different effect requiring a second Save, so, yes, you have to Save twice to get rid of the Dazed condition.&nbsp; If you then get hit by a Titan's flashlight so that you're taking ongoing 10 radiant (save ends), you're only taking 10 radiant (instead of 5, due to the stacking rules for ongoing damage), but you know that you now have 3 saves to make.&nbsp; The big kicker, obviously, comes when you've got a second identical Daze or ongoing damage effect that comes from a separate Effect -- say a Yochlol Tempter shows up to give you that Dazed (save ends) or something else applies ongoing 10 radiant (save ends) other than that titanic flashlight.&nbsp; My gut instinct (and that's really ALL it is as the rules are, in my opinion, silent after perusing Google, the books, the updates, the official WotC and this thread) is that you judge the Effect separate from the effect/condition which means that if you're ganged up on by the shard and the yochlol and each dazes you in its own special way, you roll once for each Daze save at the end of your turn and hope to God your buddies either get them to unfocus their fire or kill them off one by one.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MMDuran, post: 4801050, member: 11781"] My interpretation is to go ahead and separate "effects" from Effects. So, if say there are two prismatic shards that have a Dazed (save ends) power and they both hit you with their daze beams, then you only have one Dazed (save ends) effect on you and are only making one Save to remove it rather than two (as those two beams don't Daze you via different Effects; they are both bright flashy lights from the same type of monster). This keeps things from getting -too- tiresome if you're, say, fighting a horde of scorpions with poison -- if you're suffering a scorpion venom Effect, you'll only ever suffer -one- scorpion venom Effect (unless you come across Momma Scorpion who has some sort of giant deadly variation on the stuff). If a warlock then hits with a Dazed + ongoing 5 radiant damage (save ends both) power, clearly a different effect requiring a second Save, so, yes, you have to Save twice to get rid of the Dazed condition. If you then get hit by a Titan's flashlight so that you're taking ongoing 10 radiant (save ends), you're only taking 10 radiant (instead of 5, due to the stacking rules for ongoing damage), but you know that you now have 3 saves to make. The big kicker, obviously, comes when you've got a second identical Daze or ongoing damage effect that comes from a separate Effect -- say a Yochlol Tempter shows up to give you that Dazed (save ends) or something else applies ongoing 10 radiant (save ends) other than that titanic flashlight. My gut instinct (and that's really ALL it is as the rules are, in my opinion, silent after perusing Google, the books, the updates, the official WotC and this thread) is that you judge the Effect separate from the effect/condition which means that if you're ganged up on by the shard and the yochlol and each dazes you in its own special way, you roll once for each Daze save at the end of your turn and hope to God your buddies either get them to unfocus their fire or kill them off one by one. [/QUOTE]

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