Multiple Saves for the Same Effect

[Felon]

I staged an encounter with swarms of rot scarabs and bloodweb spiders (three apiece), which got to a point where there potentially lots of things to save against. Ongoing necrotic, ongoing poison, and slows.

Now, I know you only take damage once per round from ongoing damage of the same type. But if a character got hit with ongoing damage three times during a round, doesn't that still mean three saves still have to be made at the end of his turn? And if he doesn't make two of those saves, and then gets bitten again three times next round, isn't he then looking at five different saves?

It's not the first time loads of save-ends effects of the same kind--even from the same creature--have piled up. Is there a rule I'm missing?

 

[jdcash]

PHB p. 278 states that the saving throw is made against the ongoing damage and since the damage does not stack, my logic says the number of saves does not either. If one roll ends the damage, i don't think that the other damage of the same type pops back up. It is a bit ambiguous, but this is how it reads to me.

 

[mach1.9pants]

AFAIK nope, he has to do 5 saves!

He needs to increase his defence so he doesn't get hit so much!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Houserule:

increase the DC by one each time you are hit by the same type of ongoing damage after the first... and decrease it by one if saving throw failed...

easy to keep track and following the logic that your body has more poison to resist against... and less saving throws in the end...

 

[CapnZapp]

Now, I know you only take damage once per round from ongoing damage of the same type. But if a character got hit with ongoing damage three times during a round, doesn't that still mean three saves still have to be made at the end of his turn? And if he doesn't make two of those saves, and then gets bitten again three times next round, isn't he then looking at five different saves?

Yes of course.

The rule that says you only take damage once (that damage doesn't stack) says nothing about you only having to save once (that the condition wouldn't stack).

Ergo, you have to save once per instance of the condition. You get hit twice with Slowed, you need to save twice to be un-Slowed.

Which makes sense really: otherwise having multiple critters who deal the same condition would be almost worthless (at least compared to mixing up an encounter with critters that deal similar but not identical conditions).

The fact the damage or condition doesn't get worse when hit multiple times is nice already. The game doesn't need you getting away from the saves too...

 

[James McMurray]

Overlapping Durations: If a target is affected by
multiple powers that have the same effect but end
at different times, the effect with the most time
remaining applies.

"Save Ends" is one of the listed durations. So if you're hit with the same (save ends) effect multiple times, there is no overlap in duration. One save clears you.

 

[Nebulous]

I don't know the official answer to this ruling, but i had been thinking about adding a cumulative -1 or -2 penalty to saving throws versus stacked effects. I'd like to hear the final verdict though.

In a similar vein, what if you are being grabbed by 3 tentacles? Do you have to spend a move action to try and escape each one, or does one move action escape them all, or do the 3 tentacles apply cumulative penalty to your escape check?

 

[Nail]

"Save Ends" is one of the listed durations. So if you're hit with the same (save ends) effect multiple times, there is no overlap in duration. One save clears you.

This is the way I read it too.

 

[DrSpunj]

This is the way I read it too.

I agree as well.

I think a cumulative penalty for additional successful stacked effects would be more realistic, but I think for the vast majority of players it wouldn't be as fun so they didn't include it in the rules (wouldn't surprise me if some mechanic like this was playtested at one point, may have been dropped simply for the extra bookkeeping!).

 

[Hjorimir]

We play it as multiple saves to clear all the applications of any similiar effect (while only applying the effect a single time).