D&D (2024) How do you work saves when there are multiple effects causing the same thing

[ECMO3]

Example from play:

Enemy is Frightened due to Dragon Fear feat, this feat provides for a DC 14 Wisdom saving throw to break it every time the creature takes damage.

Same creature gets hit with Beguiling Twist which causes Frightened for a minute with a DC 16 save at the end of each of its turn.

So now the creature is "double frightened" which means nothing mechanically, but how do you handle saves? Do you treat each effect separate so it remains frightened until it breaks each of them according to the rules and DC associated with it or does the first save break both effects?

 

[bedir than]

I'd probably have the creature roll with disadvantage versus the most difficult of the DC (assuming I remembered)

 

[Tonguez]

yeah thats the beauty of the dis/advantage mechanic - just apply to the save without need for pile ups

 

[TiQuinn]

Example from play:

Enemy is Frightened due to Dragon Fear feat, this feat provides for a DC 14 Wisdom saving throw to break it every time the creature takes damage.

Same creature gets hit with Beguiling Twist which causes Frightened for a minute with a DC 16 save at the end of each of its turn.

So now the creature is "double frightened" which means nothing mechanically, but how do you handle saves? Do you treat each effect separate so it remains frightened until it breaks each of them according to the rules and DC associated with it or does the first save break both effects?

I rule that the second effect overrides the first effect. So now the creature is Frightened with a DC 16 to save.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

I rule that the second effect overrides the first effect. So now the creature is Frightened with a DC 16 to save.

Same.

Or if they were applied in the other order, the enemy would be immune to the Dragon Fear since they were already frightened by the more terrifying Beguiling Twist. Either order it would be DC16 to break

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I'd track the duration of the effects completely separately. The character remains frightened until he's no longer subject to any effect that causes it.

 

[pukunui]

I'd track the duration of the effects completely separately. The character remains frightened until he's no longer subject to any effect that causes it.

Same. I see no reason why you can't be frightened of more than one thing at the same time, and just because you stop being frightened of the one thing doesn't mean you can't still be frightened of the other thing!

 

[MarkB]

Yeah, Frightened in particular should be treated as separate individual effects, since it isn't just a generalised status effect, it's linked to the creature that caused the effect and gives the targets limitations specifically related to that creature - so if someone's frightened of two different creatures, they cannot willingly approach either of them and must be out of line of sight of both to avoid the imposed penalties.

Similarly with charmed, you could be magically well-disposed towards multiple creatures at once.

 

[pukunui]

Similarly with charmed, you could be magically well-disposed towards multiple creatures at once.

Same again with grappled, although I might rule that one differently depending on the circumstances. Like if you're being grappled by a bunch of kobolds or goblins, I might just say they're dogpiling you and let you make one check to shrug them all off at once, but if an ogre has grabbed you and then a roper grabs you with a tentacle, they'll most likely be pulling in opposite directions, and you'll need to make separate checks to escape each of them.

 

[Tonguez]

Same. I see no reason why you can't be frightened of more than one thing at the same time, and just because you stop being frightened of the one thing doesn't mean you can't still be frightened of the other thing!

I'm not sure that stands up to logic though (not that theres much logic in DnD)

A frightened creature has disadvantage on ability checks and cant move towards the source of its fear is within line of sight. But having a second source isnt imposing more disadvantage on the PCs condition - its just cutting off further move options. ie I think the condition should be from the victims persepctive not the creatures

ie theres really no value it making saves against all sources since once the save is failed the intensity of the effect doesnt change much.

* Unless when want to start imposing phobias PF adds the Shaken and Panicked conditions which might be an option