Munchkins vs. Powergamers?

[Greylock]

Does this mean I have to stop referring to Gary Gygax as a power-gaming munchkin?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think Powergamer is simply what Munchkins like to call themselves.

It has the word Power in it and sounds much more cool and decisive than a term derived from "Singing Midget from Over the Rainbow" used to mean number-crunching-at-all-costs jerk.

I think there's a line somewhere, with something like the Greenbond Summoning feat.

There's a number-cruncher who looks at it and says "Hang on, that can't be right", and there's another number-cruncher who looks at it and says "Gimme!"

-Hyp.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Is a hot rodder a better-engine-performance-at-all-costs jerk?

He is if Hot Rodding isn't a competitive activity.

D&D (as written) isn't a competitive activity.

 

[Elf Witch]

To me the big difference between a power gamer and a munchkin is how they act when they play.

My roommate and my son are big powergamers they like having strong characters who they see as competent and good at what they have choosen to do. Both of them won't play in a game where you have a point buy of less than 31. They are good at picking feats and classes that help them make such a character.

In game when playing they will often choose a role playing path not a metagame path even if it is a weaker path. For example if they encounter a monster that their PC would have no knowledge of they don't use player knowledge on how to attack.

They also don't whime and moan and complain if things don't always go their way or if the DM is changing how a monster works.

They also don't try and be the best at everything and step all over everyone else's fun. And are willing to work with the DM if the DM says I have aproblem your character is to unbalanced with the rest of the party to challenge you I have to make the encounter to hard for the other players.

A munchkin is someone who has to have the most powerful character if they have one stat that is not great they whine about hiw unplayable the character is.

In game they use metagame knowledge to always make sure they win any encounter. They throw a hissy fit if the DM changes how a monster works. They also don't care if they are ruining everyone else's fun.

Another thing they refuse to see that sometimes there is a spirit of the rule that while something may be in the rules it goes against the spirit of the rules.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

I don't define gamers by playstyle. They either fit the bill for the type of game I run, or they don't.

 

[pawsplay]

He is if Hot Rodding isn't a competitive activity.

Usually, it isn't.

 

[Greg K]

My definitions are slightly different:

Powergamer - Someone for whom character power is a major goal. Not their only goal, but definitely an important factor. Sometimes they know how to get power, sometimes they don't. There are definitely powergamers who don't actually know how to make a powerful character ("This Half-Fiend Half-Dragon Sorcerer is going to be so uber!")

I'd add it is not always in the build, but in the view of level of starting power/abilities (e.g., if any of the character's ability scores fall below a certain bonus level, the character is worthless and not heroic).

Optimiser, Min/Maxer - Someone who knows how to optimise a character for its purpose, whether that purpose is doing massive damage in combat or being a really excellent basket weaver. The fact that an optimiser can create ridiculously strong characters doesn't mean that they will actually use those in a game.

I'd seperate the two and change optimizer to meeting a concept rather than purpose and everyone does this to some degree as soon as they make concious decisions regarding where to assign points in a ability scores and skill ranks. For example, buying half or single ranks in profession (farmer), handle animal, hide, move silent, and survival for your fighter to represent skills he learned growing up on the farm and hunting in his free time despite not being the most efficient spending of skill points is, imo, optimizing to meet the background.

As for min/maxer, I'd change to a form of optomization in which the player must have the character be the best of the best in at least one area. The min/maxer seeks out every synergy opportunity, even to the point of ignoring other areas of the character's background and experience, to keep the relevant bonuses to their area of specialty maxed out.

Munchkin - Someone who obtains character power through, basically, cheating. This can be blatant dice-cheating, pressuring the DM to adopt rule interpretations that favor the munckin's character, or bringing in homebrew material that they know to be broken.

I agree with munchkin as being a cheater