Mundane treasures--what's the point?

[Three_Haligonians]

Exactly. The emphasis magic places on value isn't without precedent. The material and foci component systems for spells often state requirements in terms of x item worth at least y gold pieces. There's something native in spell crafting that evaluates worth in the same way as thinking creatures.

One DM of mine picked up on this and created a whole adventure around the idea that with the discovery of a diamond mine, the bottom fell out of the whole trade and the gems some people had were no longer worth the 10,000gp they used to be and therefore were unsuitable for use in resurrection spells.

Was a great idea, though probably not what they meant when they created the "must have an X worth Y gp" rule of components.

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

Here’s what I like do in my game to keep my players interested in otherwise mundane items:

I go out of my way to describe mundane objects that come from unknown and alien civilizations. Paintings and bed sheets are the last thing on a character’s mind; but what if the painting was made by a Githyanki and the bed sheets once belonged to a drow matron mother?

My players really didn’t get into mundane treasures until I started adding more detail like this. At that point they realized they wanted to put these things into the rooms their characters would occupy once they build a group stronghold.

Another thing I do is to inform my players (through NPCs) that there is a real demand in the game world for those mundane things only adventures are ever likely to come across (much less bring back to civilization once disovered), whether it be from any of a variety of merchants and re-sellers, or from serious collectors.

Consider, for example, the value of a bust of the last Coronal of Cormanthor recovered from Myth Drannor, even if slightly marred or damaged.

To a collector of such things (perhaps a rich Sembian Merchant or Whaterdahvian Noble enamored of elven artifacts, or a wise ruler who sees the value in remembering that even the most powerful realms may fall), such an item would be worth far, far more than its weight in gold.

By taking pains to have NPC merchants, guildmasters and sages point out their interest in acquiring such things, I learned I could promote roleplaying, NPC interaction (read: bargaining, strengthening NPC/PC relationship, etc..) and group planning in my Forgotten Realms campaign.

The cool part is talk of such items aren’t even connected to my main plot hooks. I just drop in-(NPC)character hints while roleplaying standard discussions between NPCs and the players over the players original topic of interest, and so give my players even more to ponder and think about after they’ve left the NPC’s abode.

This way a campaign can by broadened in scope and build up layers of possible adventures, and so become more believable and memorable.

And despite what Faerar might say, it’s quite possible for Monty Haul power gamer types to get interested in this sort of play too.

J. Grenemyer

 

[Arc]

This sort of "mundane treasure" problem just came up in our group, and we've had a kick of a time with it. We're a group of all dwarves, and just went through the Whispering Cairn (Age of Worms module #1). Instead of just collecting the treasure and going off to the next plot point... we're going to Greyhawk to buy the land deed for the Cairn, as well as hiring a set of skilled architects and miners to renovate the place. The ultimate goal is to turn the dungeon into a theme park / historical museum and get some side profit off of it.

There's something wonderfully fun about playing as a group of profit mongering, penny pinching dwarves. The party's name is the "AdVenture Capitalists," so go figure.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

The party's name is the "AdVenture Capitalists," so go figure.

THAT is outstanding!

Thanks for all the input, everyone. Now we'll just have to see if my players can be coerced into giving a rat's patootie about the stuff!

 

[DaveMage]

Indeed I do, and have purchased a certain product from a certain writer you may know from gazing in the mirror.

USE THIS PRODUCT!

(For those of you wondering, I'm referring to The Book of Unusual Treasures by Phil Reed and produced by Bad Axe Games. It's one of my favorite books and I heartily recommend it for any DM who wants to spice up treasure.)

 

[Li Shenron]

In most D&D settings, the most sought after treasures are magical, not for the monetary value, but the "what can it do for me?" value? So it seems that mundane treasures (the Crown Jewels or famous works of art, for example) are completely overlooked in most treasure hordes, as no one wants to try and cart them back to civilization. How do you get your players to choose them along with, or even instead of, magic treasures?

I think we often had quite an opposite problem... most groups just tend to take everything, and even magical treasure is often taken for its market value and not for its usefulness. Many most published adventures give you magical items too late, when you already have equal of better: for instance, we've nearly finished the City of the Spider Queen and we have collected soo many Ring of Protection +1, or +1/+2 armors & weapons, +1 Cloak of Resistance... Only a very few times we found something we could really use.

I wish to try some drastic measures, such as changing how the economy works in the fantasy world. I'd like adventurers to keep and indeed use their treasure, not always sell it for something useful. I think that's quite intrinsic in many assumptions of core D&D, unfortunately.

 

[Li Shenron]

What I mean is that... even if you let them find the crown jewel or a legendary piece of art, 90% of the groups are just going to do the same thing: sell it.

 

[Steverooo]

In most D&D settings, the most sought after treasures are magical, not for the monetary value, but the "what can it do for me?" value? So it seems that mundane treasures (the Crown Jewels or famous works of art, for example) are completely overlooked in most treasure hordes, as no one wants to try and cart them back to civilization. How do you get your players to choose them along with, or even instead of, magic treasures?

My question is, are you giving your PCs too much money? If they're only getting 70% cash, then they should either be well below their level in money, or you're giving out too much magic!

In the games I've been in, the local rulers try to send our first-level PCs out on a "mission", and my Ranger points out that the target is more than a week away, and that we'll be going afoot, with little food, water, and one tent (mine) among the lot of us! The rulers then GIVE us a horse, saddle, halter, reigns, saddlebags, a week's worth of dried rations, and an extra waterskin, each. In another case, I pointed out that the trip was one week there, AND BACK AGAIN, and they threw in 20 GP, to re-supply in the city, once we'd reached it.

Now at first level, affording a horse is nearly impossible, so this was a great boon. Likewise with your mundane treasures!

At first level, you will rarely see chainmail. Scale Mail is about the best that a Fighter can afford. Plate armour, at first level, can be a great boon! Masterwork weapons (let alone a MW Mighty Bow!) are wonderful! You shouldn't be able to get those until third level! Why, at first level, a 60' coil of unrotted hemp rope was an asset, for my PC! He had wanted some, but was unable to afford it! When he found a place in the woods where some Orcs had climbed up (and left their ropes!), he was able to find a lot of bad rope, and 60' that was still good!

At higher levels, mundane plate that is as light as Medium armour is still good, especially if it has less weight AND better AC, lower ACP, and/or lower Arcane Spell Failure percentage! Furthermore, since Detect Magic will reveal nothing, PCs will need to use their Appraise skill to note this.

So how do you get your PCs interested in examining and carting back the stuff?

1) Cut WAY back on magic items!
2) Cut WAY back on monetary treasure!
3) Increase the lower-level PCs dressed in Plate, with MW weapons.
4) When they ask "Where did all the money go?" point out to them all the weapons and armor that were left behind.

If they still don't catch on, let them get by with less!

 

[Steverooo]

What I mean is that... even if you let them find the crown jewel or a legendary piece of art, 90% of the groups are just going to do the same thing: sell it.

Then let them sell it! That's what treasure is for!

They can use the Mithral Mail for armor, or sell it for half price, or use it as a MW items and the basis of a magic item, or whatever they want! Art isn't worth much to many people, even today! How much it's worth to their character is a player decision!

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

My question is, are you giving your PCs too much money? If they're only getting 70% cash, then they should either be well below their level in money, or you're giving out too much magic!

Neither...I'm notoriously stingy with treasure, especially with magic. You'd think they'd fall over themselves for every crumb.