Musing of an Epic Virgin

Jack99

Adventurer
Since 4e was released, I have been running a campaign set in Draegor, my homebrew world. Last night, my players managed to kill the Aspect of Grazz't and finally become level 21, entering the epic tier. It's something we have been looking forward to very much. You see, my group and I have never really played much at higher level. For once, I think we prefer the grittier stuff, and also, they never managed to stay alive this long. I usually end up TPK'ing them way before they got anywhere near 20th level. So we are definitely epic virgins, if not also high level virgins. But perhaps it is only fitting that after 20 years, we finally get past 20th level...

Maybe that's why I decided to write a bit about it. Not too many epic campaigns that I know of around. Either way, I am not sure. This will definitely not be a Story Hour - my English doesn't quite feel up to it, but it will be more of a resume of the various things that happen, and some thoughts from a DM's point of view.

Below is the introduction to my campaign, as well as a very short overview (w/comments) over what has happened the last 20 levels.

[sblock=Introduction to the Campaign World]
Feron is an advanced empire on the continent of Ghalton. There has been peace for centuries, and trade, art, science and magic has flourished. All the great races live in harmony, working together to improve the realm they inhabit. Or at least that is how it was, up until 31 years ago.

No-one knows quite how things started, but one thing we know for sure is that suddenly, people stopped dieing. Or rather, people stopped passing on to the Shadowfell and the Astral Dominions of the gods. Instead, they were stuck as ghosts, somewhere in between. Then, whenever a body died, a soul would inhabit that corpse, effectively becoming living again. But the souls that came back were changed. Even the most pious cleric of Bahamut would come back as a raving homicidal lunatic. And while they might be happy with their new existence, there were still millions of souls on the other side of the veil, calling at them, begging them to make them come back. So the killings began.

It was a fight that was doomed to be lost from the start. How do you fight an enemy that can't die. How do you fight an enemy that gets stronger every time anyone dies in pain?

After just 30 years, Feron was no more. Actually, you could say that Ghalton was no more. All that was left of man, was 300.000 people, huddled up behind the enormous walls of the ancient city of Tar'Eldar. Outside, the Reborn, as they were called, were pressing on, eager to take over the last of the living.

Desperation grew, but it seemed that the 7 arch-mages of Tar'Eldar had had the solution for a while. They had (in secret) been working furiously on opening a rift to another world. 25 years ago, that day finally arrived. Almost 300.000 men and women stood in line, with all that they could carry and some more, while the immensely powerful 7 worked their magic in a ritual like the world had never seen before. They were assisted by every arcane and divine caster still alive and in the city . The rift opened, and people started to pour through. For more than 6 hours, people kept moving through the shimmering portal, into the other world. Suddenly, as thousands of people were passing through the portal, there was an explosion, and the rift closed, trapping all the arch-mages and many powerful warlocks and clerics on Ghalton, along with more than 250.000 other.

What became of them, no one knows. Not a word has come through since then.

The survivors found themselves in the new world, that they called Draegor, meaning A New Beginning in Old Elvish. It was a fresh and fertile world, with a mildly hot climate (subtropical), and no sign of other civilized humanoid races.

The first thing that was done, was to find an appropriate place to start over. After a few days, such a spot was located and rebuilding began.

The first city of Draegor was called Drahar, meaning A New Hope, also in Old Elvish.

As mentioned, the building of Drahar began almost immediately. Everyone was put to work by the Council, no exceptions. With hills, river and forest with a ½ mile, all resources were at hand. At first, most buildings were made of wood, and at the beginning only the Cathedral of Erathis and the Town Hall, along with the walls surrounding the city, were made of stone. But the dwarves mined like never before, in order to provide enough stone for the city, and priority lists were made, to ensure that eventually everyone would have a home made of stone.

However, things were definitely different than in the old world. While it was a great unknown world out there, it was much less scarier than the reborn from back home.

Soon it became obvious that some races just weren't suited for living amongst others, at least not in great numbers. In the Year of the Sundering (Year 3) an age-old Elven-Eladrin conflict blossomed up again, and before the conflict changed to civil war, it was decided that most of the Elves and of the Eladrin should leave Drahar, and find another place to live. They both went into the Silent Forest, although not in the same direction. Since then, both races have settled in, and created their own communities, out in the wilderness of the new world.

After the Elves and the Eladrin left, there was peace and quiet for a while. The people of Drahar worked on their city, getting things to work. Exploration was almost non-existent, as the Council feared what they would find. After all, they had all they needed to survive and prosper, why risk running into a hostile civilization? This is not to say that there weren't any dangers. The Silent Wood proved to be full of monsters, and several skirmishes with monstrous humanoids (mostly kobolds, goblins and also some hobgoblins and orcs) did also happen. But they were few and far between.

In the Year of the Clans (year 10), the Halflings of Drahar finally grew too restless to remain in Drahar. Embracing their ancient ways, they left on good terms, clan by clan, and struck out to explore the world.

The next year, in the Year of the Rock (year 11), the Dwarves of Drahar decided it was time to leave for the mountains, to regain their independence, and work some for themselves instead for the humans. They found a place in the Maruum, the Golden Peaks, and called their new home Magyth, the Golden Mine.

Even though the dwarves and halflings left on good terms, their departure were the catalyst for the greatest crisis so far in the new world. Some people felt that they had abandoned the humans, and eventually, those people started to hate all demi-humans. These people, later named the Purists, were led by John Blackhand, one of the more charismatic members of the Council. Officially, pressure grew on the Council to change the law, so that demi-humans had fewer rights and were punished harder. Especially tieflings and dragonborn seemed to be the target of the Purists, since they believed both races should be relegated to slave status, even though both races had played an instrumental part in holding of the Reborn on Ghalton, and in creating the rift to Draegor. The two races had also payed the highest price, very few were left. Not many had made it. Unofficially, press gang were hunting the streets at night, and woe to any demi-human caught out alone, with no guards around.

Soon enough it became clear that something had to be done, and the Council stripped John Blackhand of his powers, and arrested him, without any hard evidence, other than his rhetorics. His people retaliated by breaking him out, and setting a good part of the city on fire. While the fire raged, John Blackhand and his most trusted allies escaped the city, and went into hiding. He came back, claiming it was the will of the gods that he was not to be imprisoned, and that the fire that had ravaged the city was a sign of their displeasure. He went further, and announced that the city was cursed and tainted by the demi-humans, and that he would set out to find a new, clean place to live, and that any human was more than welcome to come with him. A week later, in the Year of The Black Hand (year 14) more than 3.000 adults left Drahar to follow John Blackhand westward, along the Elra, out to the Sea of Hope.

Over the last 11 years, more people left Drahar, some joining John Blackhand in Blackkeep, while others set out to form their own communities, most notably Laketown, whose inhabitants left because they wished to follow King Azar, and not be subject to some pseudo-democratic council.

Then, slowly, the people of Drahar and Draegor reverted to there fairly peaceful existence. But, as usual, the peace and quiet didn't last. One day, 50.000 other refugees from Ghalton suddenly appeared at the Stones of Arrival. They were amongst those caught in the blast that shattered the ritual. They had no idea what had happened, since for them, no time had passed.

Confused and confounded, the new arrivals parted ways. Most chose to live in Drahar (about 30k), while some left for Blackkeep and Laketown. Some even opted for making it on their own. This has been very hard on Drahar, from what you have heard. Most of the newcomers live together in two new wards, the Furnace and the Oak Ward, which is a ward build on the Elra. Wood on water. From what you hear, things are very heated, with many gangs fighting for the dominance of these two wards, while the old and new Draharians are trying to build lasting homes for their new co-habitants.

Now, 25 years after coming to this world, the first generation born here has grown up, and are ready to take on the world. [/sblock]

As the players figure out eventually, the gods of their old world are nothing but exarches in this world. This is a very basic premise and central point to the overarching plot, so I have included the list of the gods. Be warned, I steal left and right. Well mostly from Eberron, not that it matters ;)

[sblock=Overview of the Gods]
Beldar the Just (Honor, Justice, Good Dragons, Civilization)
Symbol: Gold Dragon,
Exarchs: Bahamut, Genoar, Erathis

Dol the Radiant (Sun, Humans, Agriculture)
Symbol: Sun
Exarchs: Pelor, Zevra

Akir the Strong (Strength, Storms)
Symbol: Lion
Exarchs: Kord, Irotak

Kolar the Golden (Crafting, Dwarves, Wealth)
Symbol: Mountain w/coin
Exarchs: Moradin, Gallup

Luna the Eternal (Magic, Eladrin, Knowledge, Moon, Forest, Elves, Wilderness)
Symbol: Oak Tree
Exarchs: Corellon, Ioun, Melora, Sehanine

Zira the Lady Luck (Luck, Chance, Halflings)
Symbol: Clover
Exarchs: Avandra, Linora

The Keeper (War, Tyranny, Death, the Dead, Winter)
Symbol: White Dire Wolf
Exarchs: The Raven Queen, Asmodeus, Bane, Zorich

The Shadow (Secrets, Night, Deceit, Devils, Drow, Treachery, Tieflings)
Symbol: Dark Moon
Exarchs: Lolth, Vecna

The Devourer (Vengeance, Evil Dragons, Slaughter, Orcs, Evil, Demons)
Symbol: Many-headed Dragon
Exarchs: Gruumsh, Tiamat, Torog, Zehir[/sblock]

[sblock=Heroic tier]
  • Captured by kobolds!
    We started with a fight. The players had been lured into a trap by the slavers and captured by the slavers' allies, a tribe of kobolds. The kobolds were bringing them to Castle Whiterock, a ruin a couple of days march into the relatively unknown jungle east of Drahar. As we start, the kobolds have been attacked by large jungle cats (re-skinned dire wolves), and the players have managed to free themselves more or less, but get spotted as they try to retrieve their weapons. It was a great none-sense way of starting a campaign. We usually "waste" at least one evening with people trying to find themselves and their characters. This way, they are sort of forced into making up their mind on how their character is, because the world is pro-active, instead of reactive.
  • Discover the ring of slavers operating out of their home town.
    Slightly inspired by the Castle Whiterock setup.
  • Infiltrate one of their HQ's and by accident release something from the Shadowfell
    The first HQ was Keep on the Shadowfell, although in very abbreviated form. Never a huge fan of endless dungeons, I used the maps, but removed a lot of the encounters. Most of the party wiped out against the hobgoblins, but the survivors (those who ran like girls in time) came back and managed to stop the Orcus Priest - they failed at closing the portal however, and as they hid elsewhere to rest, something came through the portal. As they found out much later, it was the aspect of Yeenoghu. Now some might wonder what the hell he was doing in the Shadowfell, but that is not public information just yet - but lets just say he was tricked there and imprisoned after the War of the Ruin
  • Make new alliances for their hometown with the lizardmen tribes in a swamp nearby.
    This was totally my players running with the ball. I had just planned they could bribe the lizardmen/diplomacy their way through, in order to get a guide for the swamp to locate the old church - but instead, they figured they would put a stopper to the attacks on merchants there had been.
  • Kill some witches in a swamp and watch a church disappear along with a ally(?) into the Feywild
  • Follow the paper trail and discover the gnolls running the slave operation
    I was leading them towards Castle Whiterock (only the outer part) and then Thunderspire Labyrinth - which fit perfectly in my campaign due to the whole slaver theme - but also because we were going away for a whole weekend to play, and I had little time to prep - so I needed something to help me. The plan was also to introduce them to the Seven Pillared Hall - it would be the first contact their City/country would have with anyone from the new continent, or rather, almost. At any rate, it would make the players quite famous, if they played their cards right.
  • Get captured and sold as slaves
    This was one of those times where things do not happen as you hope and imagine. The players took a wrong turn a couple of times, made a couple of bad choices and didn't pick up any hints laid out by the DM. Result: A 5th level party runs into 4 level 14 drows. 1 dead and 3 captured, with with an eaten finger. I could of course have killed the lot, but despite what my players say, I am not a fan of killing them, at least not when it causes a character change. I like continuity in my campaigns. So I spared 3 out of 4 and instead let the drows sell them as slaves to an Arena Master in SPH.
  • Win their freedom by winning an arena competition
    It was fun running them through series of odd combats, but the best thing about the arena competition was that for the first time in 20 years, my players actually decided to take a name for their group - The Swords of Drahar.
  • Destroy most of the gnoll slavers and their devil allies
    Thunderspire Labyrinth pumped up a few levels, with some encounters less. They missed the end part of the dungeon, as they got stuck in the oubliette for 3 months - luckily for them, they had just made a handy little bag of Everlasting Provisions
  • Enter the feywild in search of Zeke - who was in the Church of the Keeper when it disappeared into the Feywild.
  • Stumble over a troll invasion in the Feywild
[/sblock]

[sblock=Paragon Tier]
  • Lead the defense of the eladrin town against the troll armies
  • Infiltrate the troll-home and afterwards the Feydark and kill (3 times!) the troll-king and liberate their friend.
    All Inspired by King of the Trollhaunt, although not more than that. I used the map, I used Skalmad the Troll King (although heavily modified) and 2-3 encounters from the adventure.
  • Be hailed as heroes of the Feywild and their hometown (which is where the troll army was heading afterwards)
  • Become nobles
  • Learn that the aspect of Yeenoghu (which was what was released from the Shadowfell early on in the campaign) is assembling a horde of gnolls and demons and intend to head their way.
  • Return to the mortal world and take charge of their town (and fiefdom) as new noble of the realms.
  • Create visionary tax-breaks for the common man in order to attrack more business to their town.
  • Start building a church for Kord in said town.
  • Stop the magical plague that is killing their towns-men by travelling to an ancient primordial temple and taking the ritual from the dead hands of a lich and then killing the dracolich that is spreading the magical plague.
  • Track down the assassins who killed the high priest of Kord
  • Participate in the decision making process of choosing a new high priest of Kord, all while foiling a demon attack on their own manor, the goal being to secure one of the few portal areas near the home town.
  • Get trapped in a timeloop (1500 years back in time) in a battle between far realm's warped creatures led by a mad beholder and the dragonborn Tiamat-worshipers. Ends when the heroes kill the aspect of Tiamat
    This was just a side-treck. I was stuck on the players having to be a certain level before I could run the war against Yeenoghu (-again, because I wanted them to be a certain level before they face Yeenoghu). I have since fixed that problem by removing XP completely from my campaigns. Instead the players acquire XP as a group, based on the goals they accomplish. That way, I always know exactly what level the players will be when faced with a certain encounter. This also means that my players are free to solve any problem however they want. They know they will never lose XP over the way they choose to tackle things.
  • Prepare and run the war preparations.
  • Strike a deal with Bane and with the Eladrin of the Feywild for support in the coming war.
  • Lead 30.000 men against 50.000 gnolls and demons in the Battles of Devil's Pass and winning the war.
    I used One Bad Egg's "Hardboiled Armies" to create all the armies of the war (around 25 different types). After a few modification based on the evaluation of the first test-skirmish, the rest of the war went really well and was fun. Not the best time ever in D&D, but still good fun, and as one of my players said - we will never forget the Battle of Devil's Pass - ever". Definitely a winner in my opinion and with some work, it could even be great the next time.
  • Be even bigger heroes
  • Discover that the gods are not the real gods and that their fate is to kill the usurper gods - at least according to Bane and Asmodeus.
    Yeah, it was funny watching the party - which includes no less than 3 clerics of Kord be told that god their "god" worships is a fake, and that prophesies say they are the ones that might bring balance to things again. It definitely lit a fire in them, when they realized they might actually make their god an actual god :)
  • Head to Sigil to find a 3000 year old vampire - and strike a deal with him
  • Find a dungeon located under 2 miles of water, enter the dungeon and kill the demilich, thus acquiring one half of the ritual that will allow the heroes to enter the memories and mind of Kord.
    This was the original Tomb of Horror re-skinned to 4e. They almost screwed things up for themselves when they took the final battle against the demi-lich along with another encounter - without their magical items. They won, although it did cost them some resurrections - but at least it showed us that magical items are just a bonus, not a must, even at higher level.
  • Find the Church of Luna who has the other part of the ritual. Hidden deep in the Feywild, the Oracle watches over it.
  • Travel to the Feydark, the mortal world and the Shadowfell, each place killing a dragon and taking his "heart", a rock described with the Draconic Prophecy.
  • Donate the 3 "hearts" to the Church of Luna, becoming honorary members and thus gaining access to the Oracle.
  • Acquiring the final half from the Oracle
  • Find out they are nowhere done. They need 3 things to make the ritual. A component (the Heart of Grazz't, an item (The Evil Eye, an ancient Fomorian artifact in the hands of King Balor) and a place for the ritual (undisclosed so far)
  • Head to the Abyss and find out the Heart of Grazz't is the high priestess he loves. Kidnap her from her inner sanctum under his nose, and flee home to figure out what to do with her.
  • Have their home church invaded by Orcus and Demogorgon, both after the drow as well, while demons and undead flood the town.
  • Defeat Orcus and Demogorgon, only to have Grazz't and friends show up for the final round of fun (and a little pain)
    The final battles (PC's vs Orcus?Demogorgon and PC's vs Grazz't) was just perfection. I wanted something over the top crazy for the battle that would be leading into epic, and I got it. I wanted the players to be a bout de souffle, and I got that too. 2 needed a resurrection, 3 had 2 failed death saves after the fight with Grazz't. The last had only 1 failed save. They were completely out of healing and for a couple of rounds, only the wizard was on his feet, facing of Grazz't alone (save by the bell.. or rather his cloak of displacement and stoneskin. I do not think I could have hoped for a closer battle and I definitely think it will be a while until they forget the opening, where two men who called on them in the church each toss their Instant Gate down and Orcus and Demogorgon step through, screaming and howling in unison: Give us the whore!

[/sblock]
 

log in or register to remove this ad

While they did level to 21 after the fight last time, not much happened afterwards. A lot of time was spent talking about feats, powers and epic destinies. And damage of the monsters. For a while now (3-4 levels or so, IIRC), I have been adjusting all monsters by a simple formula -33% hit points and +50% damage. It has given us some very quick combats, or at least quicker combats. I like the adjustment a lot, but as it became obvious last night, at least one of my players thought it was a bit much. He felt it was pushing the cleric a lot towards being a heal-bot again. Sure, lots of heals are minor actions, its not that. Its more the fact that the increased DPR removes choices. Because once someone was bloodied, they had to be healed before a round would pass, or they would most likely be dead. I personally think his judgment is a bit colored by the fight against Orcus and Demogorgon where there pressure to heal was extremely high at first, but since my campaign is their campaign, we quickly decided to tweak damage for a while to -25% hit points, +33% damage. To be fair, they have been needing resurrection more often since I instituted the HP/damage change.

The next time we play (on Tuesday), they will be heading down to the Feydark and probably kick in the door to King Balor's castle and see if they can't kill their way through it to him and the Evil Eye. Then again, both the rogue and the warlock will be missing, so maybe they will take another approach.

Before that, I need to spend some time thinking about how I can incorporate their Epic Destiny into the campaign, so that it impacts on it. Some are obvious, some are not so obvious.

As noted in my sig, the characters are (all 21st level):
Gnoguh, human fighter/cleric (kensei->adamantine soldier)
Carric, elf cleric/ranger (radiant servant->saint)
Torn, tiefling wizard/cleric (divine oracle->sages of ages)
Truxas, human feylock/bard (feytouched->feyliege)
Tagron, human rogue (daggermaster->deadly trickster)
 


Adamantine Soldier
First of all, Gnoguh should be properly celebrated. The common man identifies himself much easier with the fighter, the guy with armor and the axe. After all, anyone can don an armor and use an axe. It's much harder for a common stable boy to imagine the warlock or the wizard doing his thing. Kings should send their daughters in hope of securing a son-in-law who can and has killed demon lords - not to mention almost 1-rounded a Balor.

The second step is to provide Mr. Tank with an iconic armor. He already has (since level 13ish) the Arcanite Reaper (Yeah, its a cheesy steal, but it fits like a glove), which is definitely getting more and more known. Now I just need to come up with something really special armor-wise... Visually as well as mechanically.

Saint
Carric has already gotten his first taste of epic-dom. The day the Swords killed 3 demon lords in the Cathedral of Kord, is henceforth known as Carric's day. Obviously, as time passes, it will be more and more widely known that a Saint walks the earth again (hasn't happened in a while) and people will flock to Drahar. I am guessing that maybe his own Church of Kord will swell (in the town in his fiefdom), surpassing the original Church of Kord in Drahar. He should also have at least one or two encounters with other Kord followers who have received word of Carric through the god. Of course, to Carric it's Kord, but to most of the rest of the world its Akir the Strong.

Sages of Ages
He already has his own tower, that was granted to him after the Battle of Devil's Pass. Followers (read apprentices) have been flocking for at least half a year, maybe more. He should start getting visits from other archmages, some wanting information, some wanting help, some wanting to see what he is. As he gains a few levels, he should start getting in contact with a few aspects of the gods - then again, this will quickly end once the gods figure out what the Swords are up to. Maybe a gold dragon could stop by one day, that ought to scare the :):):):) out of some people at least.

Feyliege
Truxas already a lover of the Queen of the Summer Court, it might be time that rumours will begin that the Queen might wed truxas. Of course, the fact that Torn has found the divine spark in Truxas already makes him fairly pivotal in his own mind anyway. Since they are heading to the Feydark, maybe the Fomorians have heard of him too. Again, maybe there will be some eladrin to free from King Balor's capital, eladrins who are big fans of Truxas.

Deadly trickster
There is already one prophecy where Torn saw Truxas becoming a god instead of Luna, but with Tagron lurking in the shadows and the rest of the Swords dead at their feet. Of course, this he didn't tell anyone. Tagron also recently acquired a interesting dagger that might cause him to take center stage at some point, but for now, he is viewed mostly as a side kick. I think his epic destiny will be the one I play up the least.

The next thing to do is to think about how I make the Fomorian castle more epic. I mean, sure, battling through hordes of level 20+ monsters is kind of epic, but I want it to be more than just another dungeon with bigger monsters. It will be like that a bit, at least for this level. The next quest/level after this one will prove to be a bit different. And the one after that will be radically different from anything I have ever done. But more about that later.

I also need to start foreshadowing the awakening of the Tarrasque. I have decided they should run into one, later. Because they can. ;)
 

Funniest. Thread Title. EVER.

And yes, a Tarrasque fight would be fun. Also, you need an encounter where they ride dragons. And fight multiple dragons at once (restat them so they're "just" level 25 brutes or something, not Elites or solos... and then throw five of them at the party!).
 

Question. Did you tone down the demon lords at all, or did you play it straight? And if they were played as written, how in the 9 hells did your party even make it close, let alone win?
 


Jack, I'm ecstatic to find out your all weekend session went great. :D

And fight multiple dragons at once (restat them so they're "just" level 25 brutes or something, not Elites or solos... and then throw five of them at the party!).
You know, I remember seeing someone post on this board that they sent four young white dragons (so four 3rd level solo brutes) against an 11th level party. The fight was even only because the dragons could slow people and got a few crits, otherwise they weren't a serious threat to the party.

I think throwing some lower level solos at the party would be really cool. If you don't mind things going slower.

As far as the Adamantite Soldier and his armor, I think you should use Balor's armor. A great place to drop it, and a great villain to claim it from.
 

Question. Did you tone down the demon lords at all, or did you play it straight? And if they were played as written, how in the 9 hells did your party even make it close, let alone win?

As mentioned by Coyote6, they were indeed just aspects. IMC Demon lords can't just enter the mortal world, just as gods can't. The Primal Spirits keep them out. Stat-wise, Orcus was a 21 solo, Demogorgon was a 21 solo and Grazz't was a 23 solo. A lot like a powered down version of what is in the books, but still tweaked a lot to provide suitable challenge for my players. Orcus was so-so, Demogorgon really successful and Grazz't was just plain nasty, so overall, I am quite happy with how they turned out.

I made them solos, based on player feedback. A few levels earlier, they fought and killed Yeenoghu (more or less straight by the book, ie 20-something elite) and even though it was a close battle, they were a bit disappointed that the aspect of the demon lord fell so easily.

Speaking of solos, I have found them to be a bit tricky. First of all, many of them simply do not have the damage output to be a significant threat to a 5 man party. Also, many solos rely on melee attacks to do their thing, which limits them a lot. So solos are probably the type of monster where I make the most changes. Below are the solo-specific changes that I try to incorporate in every solo.
  • Make sure that the solo has a 3-4 attacks as a standard action. Ideally it should have to divide those attacks on several targets within range (4 focused attacks every round on a single fighter in melee might hurt a bit too much), while not being forced to only be able to hit the melee character once if he is alone.
  • Make sure that the solo has a way to get and hurt the casters, even after the fighter has it locked down. That can be any number of tricks, from dazing the fighter (to be used sparingly or it will be a totally unfun fight for the fighter), to teleport as a move/minor, a powerful ranged attack (preferably one that doesn't draw OA's, or the fighter will eat the solo quicker than you can say cookie) or even better, a summon ability (look up Demogorgon if you do not know what I am talking about).
  • I also like to give the solos a boost when they bloody, be it more attacks or more actions. It keeps the players on their toes and they seem to enjoy it as well (masochists!)
  • Conditions. Those are really troublesome - There is a wizard, a cleric and a feylock in the group, and with no restrains they can lock down just about any solo for most of the combat. Sure, it might get out of conditions once in a while, but it will at that point be so amputated and not to mention far behind in the damage it has to do to keep players challenged, that it will never be able to keep up. Now, I know the advice given by Mearls, to use lower level solos and then add standard monsters to the fight, but I want a system where I can do both. In my vision of things, some monsters just make more sense if they are alone. So I have been trying different things, such as the "save twice per turn" power that gods have, or the "use action point or standard action" to remove effects and several other things. ATM we are testing something new, that (IMO) worked quite well in the Grazz't fight - I call it the condition track.

    The premise is quite simple. When a solo is hit by the last condition of a spell (so in the case of sleep, its when the sleep part affects it), the condition track takes over. When the solo then makes a saving throw, two things can happen.
    1) It makes the save - business as usual. The condition is gone (aftereffects if any kick in) and fight continues.
    2) It fails the save - and gains the condition one spot lower on the condition track (save ends).

    Example: Lets say that Orcus gets stunned (save ends). On his turn (at the end of it), Orcus makes his usual saving throw with +5 solo bonus. If he makes it, he is free (just as always) but if he fails, he is instead dazed (save ends).

    Sleep / Helpless
    Stun / No Attack / Dominated
    Daze
    Slowed

    Blind / Weakened
    -2 to hit

    Restrained
    Immobilized
    Slowed


    So yes, this means that you will at most get one round of the real powerful conditions to stick on a solo. But TBH, that's like having it on 5 regular monsters for a round, or 5 rounds on one monster. It's pretty good already. I talked it over with my players before implementing it (just as I do with all rules) and they didn't think it was unfair or anything. We'll see how it works, but it will take some time to collect sufficient data.

    The -2 to hit condition below Blind / Weakened is something I have added because I felt there needed to be something between free of conditions and Blind / Weakened, else the jump would be too big.
 

Funniest. Thread Title. EVER.
Thanks!
And yes, a Tarrasque fight would be fun. Also, you need an encounter where they ride dragons. And fight multiple dragons at once (restat them so they're "just" level 25 brutes or something, not Elites or solos... and then throw five of them at the party!).

Regarding restating.

lvl 1 solo = 500 xp
lvl 6 elite = 500 xp
lvl 10 standard = 500 xp
lvl 18 minion = 500 xp

lvl 10 solo = 2500 xp
lvl 15 elite = 2400 xp
lvl 19 standard = 2400 xp
lvl 26 minion = 2250 xp

If you look at the numbers, you will see a trend. What I am saying is that, if want a bit of verisimilitude or sandboxing in your campaign (and I do, to a certain degree) this is my go-to table.

Basically, lets say the players meet a young blue dragon (lvl 6 solo) at level 4. They are losing the fight, and decide to make a run for it, and by sheer luck, they get away. A couple of months/years later, those players are now level 12. They decide to head back to the dragon's lair and enact their revenge on it. Then I would have made the dragon a level 11 elite instead of a 6 solo - hell, for ease of things, I might even make it a level 12 elite. Had they come back around level 15 or so, I would have made it a standard monster. Still the young dragon and thus much less of a threat to a party than it was 10 levels earlier. Had they waited until epic tier to come back, it would (yes) have been a minion. I mean, a young dragon is basically just a fly to swat away for characters on the way to godhood. Okay, maybe not with a dragon, but with any other solo, definitely.

I realize this will not work for every group, but it has worked well for mine so far.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I really like your idea of battling dragons in the sky, and will definitely use it at some point. They will be riding young dragons (standard monsters) and fighting a real dragon (solo) and its children (elites/standards). Should be fun. I guess I am going to have to make something like the guy from PA to handle that 3D fight - gulp.
 

Remove ads

Top