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My Dungeon Doesn't Have Corridors
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<blockquote data-quote="The Monster" data-source="post: 5502408" data-attributes="member: 69516"><p>For some time now, I've been viewing D&D (RPGs in general) using perspectives like movies, TV, metting facilitation, and so on - not in order to get all artsy-fartsy, but to look at the game sesison in terms of time spent and participation. Thus, it's been a while since my dungeon had corridors and empty rooms - or, really, since I used dungeons much at all. </p><p> </p><p>The old-school dungeon crawl, with carefully plotted-out corridors, empty rooms, carefully calculating resources and searching for traps and lighting and so on, is fun enough for some of us, but it has a couple problems for most folks: 1) it's very slow paced - even with good communication, a lot of time is spent describing picayune details about wall length and angles and so on; 2) most of the time is spent with one or two players (i.e., the rogue/s), while the rest sit around waiting for something to happen; it also (3) easily devolves into a conest of wits between GM and players - which, again, is cool if that's what you all want, but for many (I think most) of us, the goal is entertainment and action, rather than outwitting each other in open (if directed) conversation (that last is hardly unique to dungeon-crawl tradition, but it's easy for it to go that way). </p><p> </p><p>Screen entertainment and effective team meetings focus heavily on keeping as many people actively involved as possible - yes, there are specific audiences and expectations for each event, but any time you have only one or two people in the room involved with the action, your event is moribund. (This is one of the things I think 4e does very well - with all the interrupts and changing conditions and situations, there's a lot to grab your attention even when it's not your turn.) Part of involving everyone is to keep the action rolling, move the plot along, as it were, working toward the climax and resolution with every moment. TV shows generally have about 20 or 40 minutes to introduce, elaborate, and resolve a conflict, although some of that can be carried between episodes; movies have as much as three hours in a single sitting to do this, so they can get a little more crafty. Game sessions typically have about a movie-length of time (if you factor in 'lost' time for side chatter, rules discussions, bookkee[ing, and so on, you probably get about three hours of real play time in most sessions), with the advantage that, in a regular campaign, a lot of information and energy can be carried from one seeion to the next (one of the key factors separating RPGs from boardgames). </p><p> </p><p>Even with movie-length time slots, and continuing episodes, there's still no reason to waste time: people are there for the entertainment value, and pretty much nobody really gets much from watching other people play for long. And even dramatic activity, if it doesn't contribute to the plot, atmosphere, or other development, soon becomes boring (there are very different thresholds for this, of course - films which are very thin on plot but heavy on action have a good enough fan base that they keep making money, but top-notch movies, especially war movies, are those which have well-made plot and character.). Frankly, I consider such classic tropes as wandering monsters, detailed dungeon corridors, and empty rooms to be largely a waste of time. </p><p> </p><p>The point of an RPG is to have fun, like any other game, and, really, any form of entertainment. Dead time in an RPG is no less dreadful and boring than dad time in a movie or video game. When I run a game, one of my goals is to minimize dead time (and when I play, as far as that goes, but I have much less influence as a player than as a GM). As I see it, each and every scene in the game should serve a purpose: advance the plot, build atmosphere, develop character, something. And while empty rooms and wandering monsters can occasionally serve a dramatic purpose, they must be brought in with a dramatic purpose in mind, not just because that's they way it was done before. If a scene or a prop - combat encounter, skill challenge, NPC interaction, map, model, mini, whatever - doesn't serve to advance the action, it shouldn't be there; furthermore, if an encounter or event doesn't draw the players into the action, it should probably either be thrown out or redesigned. </p><p> </p><p>As a caveat, all this may come across as very high-minded and demanding. Perfection always is <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> I wish I could always practice what I preach! The idea is, everything can and should be a tool for the GM; and the goal is to entertain and be entertained, and to allow the players to enter the game to the fullest. Empty rooms and random monsters, in my opinion, are pretty poor tools to accomplish that, as a general thing. When movies and TV shows use such things, they have a reason to put them in; and they don't spend more time on them than needed to serve the overall experience. That's where these things fit in to a D&D game, in my opinion - not as filler between interesting stuff.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Monster, post: 5502408, member: 69516"] For some time now, I've been viewing D&D (RPGs in general) using perspectives like movies, TV, metting facilitation, and so on - not in order to get all artsy-fartsy, but to look at the game sesison in terms of time spent and participation. Thus, it's been a while since my dungeon had corridors and empty rooms - or, really, since I used dungeons much at all. The old-school dungeon crawl, with carefully plotted-out corridors, empty rooms, carefully calculating resources and searching for traps and lighting and so on, is fun enough for some of us, but it has a couple problems for most folks: 1) it's very slow paced - even with good communication, a lot of time is spent describing picayune details about wall length and angles and so on; 2) most of the time is spent with one or two players (i.e., the rogue/s), while the rest sit around waiting for something to happen; it also (3) easily devolves into a conest of wits between GM and players - which, again, is cool if that's what you all want, but for many (I think most) of us, the goal is entertainment and action, rather than outwitting each other in open (if directed) conversation (that last is hardly unique to dungeon-crawl tradition, but it's easy for it to go that way). Screen entertainment and effective team meetings focus heavily on keeping as many people actively involved as possible - yes, there are specific audiences and expectations for each event, but any time you have only one or two people in the room involved with the action, your event is moribund. (This is one of the things I think 4e does very well - with all the interrupts and changing conditions and situations, there's a lot to grab your attention even when it's not your turn.) Part of involving everyone is to keep the action rolling, move the plot along, as it were, working toward the climax and resolution with every moment. TV shows generally have about 20 or 40 minutes to introduce, elaborate, and resolve a conflict, although some of that can be carried between episodes; movies have as much as three hours in a single sitting to do this, so they can get a little more crafty. Game sessions typically have about a movie-length of time (if you factor in 'lost' time for side chatter, rules discussions, bookkee[ing, and so on, you probably get about three hours of real play time in most sessions), with the advantage that, in a regular campaign, a lot of information and energy can be carried from one seeion to the next (one of the key factors separating RPGs from boardgames). Even with movie-length time slots, and continuing episodes, there's still no reason to waste time: people are there for the entertainment value, and pretty much nobody really gets much from watching other people play for long. And even dramatic activity, if it doesn't contribute to the plot, atmosphere, or other development, soon becomes boring (there are very different thresholds for this, of course - films which are very thin on plot but heavy on action have a good enough fan base that they keep making money, but top-notch movies, especially war movies, are those which have well-made plot and character.). Frankly, I consider such classic tropes as wandering monsters, detailed dungeon corridors, and empty rooms to be largely a waste of time. The point of an RPG is to have fun, like any other game, and, really, any form of entertainment. Dead time in an RPG is no less dreadful and boring than dad time in a movie or video game. When I run a game, one of my goals is to minimize dead time (and when I play, as far as that goes, but I have much less influence as a player than as a GM). As I see it, each and every scene in the game should serve a purpose: advance the plot, build atmosphere, develop character, something. And while empty rooms and wandering monsters can occasionally serve a dramatic purpose, they must be brought in with a dramatic purpose in mind, not just because that's they way it was done before. If a scene or a prop - combat encounter, skill challenge, NPC interaction, map, model, mini, whatever - doesn't serve to advance the action, it shouldn't be there; furthermore, if an encounter or event doesn't draw the players into the action, it should probably either be thrown out or redesigned. As a caveat, all this may come across as very high-minded and demanding. Perfection always is ;) I wish I could always practice what I preach! The idea is, everything can and should be a tool for the GM; and the goal is to entertain and be entertained, and to allow the players to enter the game to the fullest. Empty rooms and random monsters, in my opinion, are pretty poor tools to accomplish that, as a general thing. When movies and TV shows use such things, they have a reason to put them in; and they don't spend more time on them than needed to serve the overall experience. That's where these things fit in to a D&D game, in my opinion - not as filler between interesting stuff. [/QUOTE]
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