My group and I don't want a "Sub-System" for dealing with out of combat scenarios.

[keterys]

They've already stated skill challenges won't be part of the core.

In general, I think we'd all profit by focusing our posts on the positive aspects of things we're looking for, or responding to playtest material that is actually published.

It's really hard to turn general griping into a fruitful discussion.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I don't think skill challenges (or something like them) will make it into the core. There will probably be an optional method for folks who liked them.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Complex skill checks (UA) are a great addition that helped resolve actions that don't make sense for a single d20 roll or a series of independent ones. The whole skill challenge thing seems to have butchered this concept by adding in more arbitrary requirements and strictures and making a big deal out of something that was really a small corner of the rules. Hopefully, they can just go back to where we were on this issue. Complex checks were presented optionally, and I don't think they caused the same kind of headaches.

 

[Agamon]

I believe the term was "died in a fire." I doubt we'll even see them as an option in core rules. Maybe later on.

 

[BobTheNob]

I absolutely agree. Attaching any subsystem to non combat resolution is (for me) exactly what table top gaming is NOT about.

However this...

We actually like the 3rd edition/Pathfinder method where it's usually up to the players and the DM's to find out of combat uses with the rules at present.

It isnt a 3e/pf specific thing. I would argue the majority of RPG's do this and all pre 4e D&D did it as well.

If you want to look for a model of how to handle non-combat RP, FATE is the system that has impressed me most in this regard. Reading through FATE was, as a DM, a life changing experience. More than anything I have ever seen it puts control into the players hands and lets them dictate how to handle RP scenario's.

 

[pemerton]

Complex skill checks (UA) are a great addition that helped resolve actions that don't make sense for a single d20 roll or a series of independent ones. The whole skill challenge thing seems to have butchered this concept by adding in more arbitrary requirements and strictures and making a big deal out of something that was really a small corner of the rules.

I don't agree with the evaluations in this post, but I do agree that skill challenges are quite different from complex skill checks, with additional requirements and strictures.

I don't think those additions are arbitrary - in the "Why I like skill challenges" thread that I started I explain what I think they ad to the game - but they do rest upon techniques of scene-framing and adjudication that not everyone is interested in.

So, even if we didn't know that skill challenges are slated to "die in a fire" (as per Rober J Schwalb, I think, at one of the cons earlier this year), I think it would be obvious that they are not going to be stipulated as an essential process for non-combat resolution. But I would hope that something like them will be included as one approach to non-combat resolution - without it (or something comparable to take its place), I personally don't see how they are going to deliver on the three pillars (at least at the mechanical level).

 

[nomotog]

I don't agree with the evaluations in this post, but I do agree that skill challenges are quite different from complex skill checks, with additional requirements and strictures.

I don't think those additions are arbitrary - in the "Why I like skill challenges" thread that I started I explain what I think they ad to the game - but they do rest upon techniques of scene-framing and adjudication that not everyone is interested in.

So, even if we didn't know that skill challenges are slated to "die in a fire" (as per Rober J Schwalb, I think, at one of the cons earlier this year), I think it would be obvious that they are not going to be stipulated as an essential process for non-combat resolution. But I would hope that something like them will be included as one approach to non-combat resolution - without it (or something comparable to take its place), I personally don't see how they are going to deliver on the three pillars (at least at the mechanical level).

No doubt their is going to be rules to handle noncombat stuff, but I see them bypassing the system and just making actual skill challenges. Maybe they will do what they did in 3e and have that big list of different doors and their stats.

 

[Minigiant]

Isn't the base assumption for D&D out-of-combat just basic skill checks.

Then skill challenges
Complex skill checks
social combat
et.... are optional for group that want it.

 

[Tony Vargas]

They've already stated skill challenges won't be part of the core.

In general, I think we'd all profit by focusing our posts on the positive aspects of things we're looking for, or responding to playtest material that is actually published.

Well, Skill Challenges were a positive development, one of the real innovations 4e brought to the table. Sure, they were mathematically broken as first presented, but they've been much improved. They could use some more improvement, and 5e would do well to do just that.

Skill Challenges could be adapted to add structure to the two non-combat pillars and make it practical to balance classes with in them. That'd be a great step forward for D&D as a functional game.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I have much more pressing issues - I don't want spells that have duration expressed in minutes, hours, seconds or rounds.

But I get the feeling I am more out of luck then you are.

Mustrum "But there is a app module for that" Ridcully