My Half-Dragons

[Camarath]

Well in that case there is not much you can do to avoid the paper tiger syndrome. At non-epic levels there is really no point in playing one since, wile your AC (due to NA and Cha [IMO DR would not be a viable option]) and attacks would be ok (due +10 to attack and damage from Str bonus), you would not be able to sustain very much damage at low levels (13th level fighter con 10 hp 76; 1st level fighter [ECL 13] Half-Force Dragon con 22 hp 16). Also your breath weapon's damage will not be all that high (average 32.5 ECL 13 to 78 at ECL 20). If this template is only used with epic characters it should work fine but at ECLs of less than 20 I think you will run into some problems.

On a side note, I still don't see how you can possibly justify the Half-Rust Dragon's LA.

 

[Buddha the DM]

I don't understand why half-force dragons are such an issue for people. Sure they have an impressive array of abilities, but such is the price (LA +12) that you pay for having that power.

Why do you insist on arguing about the Half-Rust Dragon's LA mod?

LA Breakdown for Half-Rust Dragons

+0.5 - Potential for Flight
+0.8 - Allowance for the scaling of hit dice since they are of the dragon type
+1.4 - Natural Armor
+1.0 - Breath Weapon that scales with level
+0.5 - Metal Resistance Ability
+0.2 - Low-Light & Darkvision
+0.2 - Immunity to Sleep & Paralysis Spells/Effects
+1.2 - for the Physical Ability Bonuses (+8 Str & +4 Con in this case)

+5.8 - total of the above (rounds to +6.0)

I used Soldarin's ECL Worksheet to figure this out.

 

[Scion]

If I am reading that guys site correctly then he says to round down, which would make it +5 not +6. I can see what camarath is saying though, it just isnt worth even that much, though it isnt horribly far off probably. Savage species has a similar method, but the last part is the acid test. I think that you would need to run through at least 10 different acid tests for each of your dragons, more depending on how high into epic levels you are going to use these.

 

[Buddha the DM]

I know it says round down but they are a bit too powerful for an LA of +5 so I felt that rounding up the +0.2 to 6.0 was warranted.

 

[Camarath]

Why do you insist on arguing about the Half-Rust Dragon's LA mod?

Because you added +3 to the base (WotC) LA of the Half-Dragon template and added no appreciable benifits IMO. I will give Soldarin's system a go but I still think your LA is too high.

LA Breakdown for Half-Rust Dragons
My Opinions using Soldarin's system

+0.5 - Potential for Flight
Should only be included if granted. [+0/+.5]
+0.8 - Allowance for the scaling of hit dice since they are of the dragon type
Should only be applied if the creature actually has racial HD. [+0]
+1.4 - Natural Armor
Ok a bit high IMO [+1.4]
+1.0 - Breath Weapon that scales with level
IMO a 1/d ability is not a real Breath Weapon. This should count as a minor power. A 1/d Line with 1d4 per 2 levels (average 1.25 per level) damage with a save for half is barely worth that. [+.2]
+0.5 - Metal Resistance Ability
Fair IMO [+.5]
+0.2 - Low-Light & Darkvision
Not worth counting in the same category as blindsight [+0]
+0.2 - Immunity to Sleep & Paralysis Spells/Effects
Fair IMO [+.2]
+1.2 - for the Physical Ability Bonuses (+8 Str & +4 Con in this case)
Fair IMO [+1.2]

+5.8 - total of the above (rounds to +6.0)
+3.5 or +4 if Large size or bigger (round to +3 or +4 Large size or bigger)
[Final LA +3/+4]

 

[Buddha the DM]

.....

 

[Buddha the DM]

Fine.. critique them all... All I asked for was opinions on the Half-Force Dragon. Use your logic for weighing abilities on that one...

 

[Camarath]

Fine.. critique them all... All I asked for was opinions on the Half-Force Dragon. Use your logic for weighing abilities on that one...

I am sorry if I offended you in any way.

Here is my take on the Half-Force Dragon using Soldarin's system.

+0/+.5 Potential for Flight
+0 Low-Light & Darkvision
+.2 Immunity to Sleep & Paralysis Spells/Effects
+2.8 Natural Armor +14
+1 Breath Weapon
+.2 Additional Attacks
+.2 Immunity to Force Spells/Effects
+.5 DR 5/magic or Deflecting Force (Cha Mod to AC; Deflection Bonus)
+5.5 Ability Modifiers: +20 Str, +12 Con, +14 Int, +14 Wis, +14 Cha

+10.4 total round down for a LA +10 (LA +11 if Large or bigger)

 

[Buddha the DM]

that seems somewhat reasonable.. why exactly do you weigh things as you do?

 

[Camarath]

that seems somewhat reasonable.. why exactly do you weigh things as you do?

Here is my take on the Half-Force Dragon using Soldarin's system.
My thoughts on why abilities should count as I have them listed.

+0/+.5 Potential for Flight
Only Large or bigger creatures gain Flight so I don't think it should count if the creature does not gain the ability
+0 Low-Light & Darkvision
Normal vision is a Minor weaknesses so I don't think that Low-Light & Darkvision add to LA
+.2 Immunity to Sleep & Paralysis Spells/Effects
Looks like the Minor power, Immunities to a handful of spells, to me.
+2.8 Natural Armor +14
+0.2 per point of NA
+1 Breath Weapon
Should counts as a Major power IMO because it is at least as powerful as a 4th level spell.
+.2 Additional Attacks
Standard adjustment for a Bite attack
+.2 Immunity to Force Spells/Effects
Looks like the Minor power, Immunities to a handful of spells, to me.
+.5 DR 5/magic or Deflecting Force (Cha Mod to AC; Deflection Bonus)
Medium powers either DR less than 9/+1 or General combat modifier (against all enemies)
+5.5 Ability Modifiers: +20 Str, +12 Con, +14 Int, +14 Wis, +14 Cha
+.1 per point str and con +.05 per point int, wis, and cha +.2 for str greater or equal to 20

+10.4 total round down for a LA +10 (LA +11 if Large or bigger)
LA +10 may work well because at this level your Bonus to attack from Str and your potential lost BAB are equal (+10).