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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5919156" data-attributes="member: 42582">From Burning Wheel Gold Edition, pp 73-74, 552:Why roll at all? Why not just agree on what's happening? We're all fair-minded adults, right? Well, social agreement is a fantastic ideal, but its subject to bullying, blustering, intimidation, manipulation, cajoling, persuasion and lying: all things that are separate from the characters - part of a social dynamic that is apart from the game. By relying on the dice, everyone is on a level playing field. Burning Wheel is a game, not acting class. The versus test [= opposed check] gets everyone playing the game. . . Roll, and you'll find that the dice in Burning Wheel actually support and bolster the players' actions - even if they fail! . . . I'm conficdent that the mechanics of this game drive dramatic, intense play. Roll the dice. You'll see. . . As questions arise about detailed resolution, make a few notes and, after the game, start reading through the chapters [that set out the details of the action resolution mechanics]. . . Use the mechanics! . . . Don't wait for the GM to invoke a rule - invoke the damn thing yourself and get the story moving!I think this is evidence of a designer (Luke Crane) who has thought pretty hard about the play experience he wants his game to deliver, and is pretty confident that his game will deliver that experience. Now maybe he's wrong. Or maybe I don't want that sort of experience from an RPG. But I like it that he has the courage of his convictions. I like it that he believes in his rules, and is prepared to tell me "Follow these rules, invoke these rules in the course of play, and you'll drive the story forward into dramatic and intense play."Gygax, in his PHB, promises a different experience, but he also has the courage of his convictions. I don't much care for the Gygaxian experience, but I like it that Gygax tells me what he thinks I will get from playing his game.The comparison of Luke Crane (and BW) to Gygax (and AD&D) shows another thing, too, I think. In Gygaxian AD&D the finer details of the action resolution mechanics are to some extent secondary. Tweaking halberds so that they do 2d4 rather than 1d10 damage won't make a huge difference; nor will boosting all thief abilities by 5% across the board. Likewise changing the detect secret doors chance from 1 in 6 to 1 in 4, or down to 1 in 8, won't change the fundamental play of the game. The real shapers of the experience are found elsewhere - particularly in the interplay between the GM's design guidelines and the PC advancement rules. Change how XP is earned, how treasure is acquired, the basic free-form dynamics of the dungeoneering experience - now you're changing what it is the game delivers.Whereas in BW, the action resolution mechanics in many ways are the PC advancement rules, and also drive the dynamics of play. Change them, and you change the game. And I think that's part of what Luke Crane is getting at.Both Gygaxian AD&D and BW have a system; but the core of the AD&D system isn't the minutiae of its action resolution mechanics. Whereas the core of the BW system is those minutiae.I think 4e is more like BW than AD&D in this respect. If D&Dnext is going to go back to the AD&D style, that's fine as far as it goes. But I hope they think it through, and write PC build rules and player/GM guidelines that suit that different sort of game.</blockquote>

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