D&D 4E My party beat the dragon!! (A 4e playtest review)

Stalker0 said:
The ranger teleported (snip)

Then the cleric used a power to DAMAGE HIMSELF, allowing him to provide some temp hitpoints to the fighter. (snip)

"ME: Alright you get hit with a glue bomb. Your immobilized, oh you also take 6 damage." Player: "6 damage!! What the **** was that, so kind of crazy acid glue!!??" (snip)

So my final comment, play the game!! For those detractors out there, once you play it, I don't think you will care nearly as much about 50/50 saving throws and 1-1-1-1 movement. They've really done some good work on what I've seen so far...so give it a try!!

Thing is, mechanical stuff (like 50/50 saving throws and 1-1-1 movement) doesn't bug me anywhere near as much as things like "the ranger teleported" (WTF?), "the cleric damaged himself to heal the fighter" (WTF?), and "crazy acid glue" (which, if I were a player, would smack of pure cheese).

What good is it being fast to play if it's chock full of nonsense? :uhoh: Sure, it's wild and wooly, but it also sounds like the rules are on crack. "Then the rogue sprouted thirty foot tentacles and used them to swing across the room! It was FUN!" :confused:

-The Gneech :cool:
 

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I have run 3.5 without minis and found no significant difficulty in doing so. After my 4e playtest, I'm convinced that I could easily run it without minis and it would at worst be no more difficult than running 3.5 without minis.
 

The_Gneech said:
Thing is, mechanical stuff (like 50/50 saving throws and 1-1-1 movement) doesn't bug me anywhere near as much as things like "the ranger teleported" (WTF?), "the cleric damaged himself to heal the fighter" (WTF?), and "crazy acid glue" (which, if I were a player, would smack of pure cheese).

When the cleric damaged himself to heal the fighter, we flavored it as the cleric sacrificed his own life energy to heal the fighter, so no flavor problems there. The ranger teleporting is an eladrin thing. Drow can release darkness, eladrin have a short range teleport, no problems for an innately magical race.

My players did think the acid glue was a little hokey at first, but once we realized how short durations often are in 4e, and how conditions are not as hindering as in 3.5, they were okay with it. That was a big realization. Because conditions are short lived and less hindering, its okay that certain monster effects are automatic. And it definitely made those little kobolds much more important to take down. The party went from attacking the kobold dragon shields to rushing over and getting those slingers.

Actually, flavorwise the main thing that didn't seem to work sometimes was marking. For example, I had some hobgoblins that had a marking attack. I would hit the ranger, who would teleport away from the hobgoblin, yet was still at a -2 to attack anyone but the hobgoblin :confused: To me that was the biggest flavor stretch.

Also, let me comment that I love the unique racial abilities. Most all of them seemed nice. The tiefling's bloodhunt made the difference multiple times. The eladrin's teleport was great for a sniper. The dwarf resilience made him feel tough, and the halfling with his feat was just very hard to hit. I will admit to not feeling much from the half-elf, I think the diplomacy aura is still pretty lame.


Oh, one piece of advice for those soon to try out 4e. Because monsters have so many more hitpoints than the players, you have to be careful to not get numb to big damage. My players would routinely do 12 or more damage, and I would just check it off and keep going, that didn't bloody many of the monsters. But man when I did 12 damage to a player they were in a load of trouble, and sometimes I got caught by that. One time a player did 20 damage to me. I attacked back and shrugged, saying I only did 12. The player gulped and said he was unconscious and close to death!!
 
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The_Gneech said:
Thing is, mechanical stuff (like 50/50 saving throws and 1-1-1 movement) doesn't bug me anywhere near as much as things like "the ranger teleported" (WTF?), "the cleric damaged himself to heal the fighter" (WTF?), and "crazy acid glue" (which, if I were a player, would smack of pure cheese).

What good is it being fast to play if it's chock full of nonsense? :uhoh: Sure, it's wild and wooly, but it also sounds like the rules are on crack. "Then the rogue sprouted thirty foot tentacles and used them to swing across the room! It was FUN!" :confused:

-The Gneech :cool:

The ranger teleports because he is an Eladrin. I don't have a problem with this. Its a supernatural fey ability because the Eladrin are supernatural fey. :)

The cleric shouldn't be able to damage himself to heal allies. Having the cleric damage himself to provide temp hitpoints seems like deliberate misreading of the rules. Kind of like the mark and run paladin tactic.

I also don't remember the kobold glue pots doing acid damage. More likely the PC took damage from getting slammed by the pot which then shattered and covered him with glue.
 

Stalker0 said:
When the cleric damaged himself to heal the fighter, we flavored it as the cleric sacrificed his own life energy to heal the fighter, so no flavor problems there. The ranger teleporting is an eladrin thing. Drow can release darkness, eladrin have a short range teleport, no problems for an innately magical race.

Oh, the Eladrin teleport! Okay. That makes more sense. I thought there was some "ranger movement power" going on. I don't have problems with an innately magical race being able to teleport either.

I keep hoping that these are the kind of details missing from 4E reports that make them all sound so bizarre.

-The Gneech :cool:
 

Dragonblade said:
I have run 3.5 without minis and found no significant difficulty in doing so. After my 4e playtest, I'm convinced that I could easily run it without minis and it would at worst be no more difficult than running 3.5 without minis.

Glad to hear that. :)
 

The_Gneech said:
Oh, the Eladrin teleport! Okay. That makes more sense. I thought there was some "ranger movement power" going on. I don't have problems with an innately magical race being able to teleport either.

I keep hoping that these are the kind of details missing from 4E reports that make them all sound so bizarre.

-The Gneech :cool:
It was an encounter power, too, and limited to 5 squares. I used it to jump across a chasm into a melee, then realized I couldn't use it to jump back. *gulp*
 

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