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"My Pathfinder Spoiler" Glimpses At Pathfinder 2
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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7782418" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>When you're audience doesn't care, then why should Paizo care? Because CapnZapp thinks that it's the crisis of the ages? Look, I don't like LFQW either, but I think you are overblowing the issue, especially in terms of how many peoples (particularly new players) care about the issue. 5e actually rolls back the LFQW balance changes that WotC made. (4E is the edition that fixed it. 5E is the edition that back-tracked on it with concessions.) </p><p></p><p>It's also important to keep in mind that 5e is far from having "ruthless enforcement of the restrictions." Spell foci circumvent material components. The Sorcerer's Subtle Spell circumvents verbal and somatic spell components. War Caster allows for cirumventing somatic components. Many tables in 5e kinda ignore the whole material, somatic, and verbal components thing with spellcasting anyway. (Again, 5e is far from ruthless: mostly lax in praxis apart from concentration.) Plus, one of the ways that 5e "balanced" things was by basically handing out magical subclasses like candy to martial classes. You can even find plenty of criticism of this approach in this forum. </p><p></p><p>But I don't think that we should be under the delusion that Concentration is the only way to "fix" d20 spellcasting. In PF2, it seems that the bigger impact on spellcasting will be how spellcasting is tied to the action economy. In PF2, however, you can't really ignore components because they determine how many of your three precious actions you expend in a round. </p><p></p><p>Not only that, but a wizard will need to prepare those spells in advance. PF2 wizards do not use 5e's pseudo-Vancian magic where they can spontaneously cast anything they prepare. If they want to cast invisibility, flying, and haste, then they will need those spells prepared in advance and once cast, they will be forgotten for the day, assuming they did not prepare more. </p><p></p><p>You also have not seen how spells will work in PF2, and I suspect that in a number of key cases you may find that they are weaker than their 5e counterparts. Here, for example, is Sleep in the PF2 playtest. </p><p></p><p>Sleep is less of a lower level "I win" button in PF2 as it can be in 5e, particularly in the midst of combat. </p><p></p><p>And we can find others. Shield is a cantrip, but it can't be recast until 10 minutes after it has blocked. And it does not provide a bonus to AC. </p><p></p><p>Magic Missile can be cast using 1-3 actions, each providing an arcane missile. But unlike 5e, where the wizard can Move-Cast/Cast-Move and get all their magic missiles, the PF2 Wizard will have to decide: Do I fire all three and remain stationary or do I fire two and take a move action? </p><p></p><p>Keep in mind that this was from the playtest, and things likely have changed in terms of spells. The point is, CapnZapp, that you can't just look at Concentration in isolation as the miracle cure-all for LFQW and ignore the action economy or how spells compare.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 7782418, member: 5142"] When you're audience doesn't care, then why should Paizo care? Because CapnZapp thinks that it's the crisis of the ages? Look, I don't like LFQW either, but I think you are overblowing the issue, especially in terms of how many peoples (particularly new players) care about the issue. 5e actually rolls back the LFQW balance changes that WotC made. (4E is the edition that fixed it. 5E is the edition that back-tracked on it with concessions.) It's also important to keep in mind that 5e is far from having "ruthless enforcement of the restrictions." Spell foci circumvent material components. The Sorcerer's Subtle Spell circumvents verbal and somatic spell components. War Caster allows for cirumventing somatic components. Many tables in 5e kinda ignore the whole material, somatic, and verbal components thing with spellcasting anyway. (Again, 5e is far from ruthless: mostly lax in praxis apart from concentration.) Plus, one of the ways that 5e "balanced" things was by basically handing out magical subclasses like candy to martial classes. You can even find plenty of criticism of this approach in this forum. But I don't think that we should be under the delusion that Concentration is the only way to "fix" d20 spellcasting. In PF2, it seems that the bigger impact on spellcasting will be how spellcasting is tied to the action economy. In PF2, however, you can't really ignore components because they determine how many of your three precious actions you expend in a round. Not only that, but a wizard will need to prepare those spells in advance. PF2 wizards do not use 5e's pseudo-Vancian magic where they can spontaneously cast anything they prepare. If they want to cast invisibility, flying, and haste, then they will need those spells prepared in advance and once cast, they will be forgotten for the day, assuming they did not prepare more. You also have not seen how spells will work in PF2, and I suspect that in a number of key cases you may find that they are weaker than their 5e counterparts. Here, for example, is Sleep in the PF2 playtest. Sleep is less of a lower level "I win" button in PF2 as it can be in 5e, particularly in the midst of combat. And we can find others. Shield is a cantrip, but it can't be recast until 10 minutes after it has blocked. And it does not provide a bonus to AC. Magic Missile can be cast using 1-3 actions, each providing an arcane missile. But unlike 5e, where the wizard can Move-Cast/Cast-Move and get all their magic missiles, the PF2 Wizard will have to decide: Do I fire all three and remain stationary or do I fire two and take a move action? Keep in mind that this was from the playtest, and things likely have changed in terms of spells. The point is, CapnZapp, that you can't just look at Concentration in isolation as the miracle cure-all for LFQW and ignore the action economy or how spells compare. [/QUOTE]
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