My PCs are walking into a problem!!

[Innocent Bystander]

Do you make all your rolls out in the open? If not, and the PCs are dropping like flies, roll their auto stabalizations behind the screen and fudge them if they fail. Then, if they do all go down, have them wake up in the middle of nowhere stripped of all their gear. That'll teach them a little humility, and perhaps they'll understand that they aren't the biggest fish in the sea and can't fight their way out of every situation. Then when they come back to the battle (when they are actually ready), have their opponents wearing/using some of it so they can get it back and feel like they've got their revenge.

 

[BSF]

Balrog,
I am going to take an unusually strong stance on this one.

You are worrying too much about your players. One thing my players teach me over and over is that I underestimate them. This last campaign, I even threw and ogre at 3 1st level PC's. They killed it without going negative. They were willing to take the risks and rely on a good dose of luck. Wacky!

Anyway, your PC's have a lot at their disposal in the way of resources. If they want to go in and take on the bad guys, let them. It's not your job to stop them. You job is to provide a fun, dramatic battle if they do that. Some of the PC's may die. If they are particularly ill-prepared, or running through a string of really bad luck, then it could become a TPK, but they might also surprise you on how effectively they can retreat if they want.

Don't let them get into the "DM would never throw something that we can't beat at us" mentallity. That mentallity creates a cushion that they will begin to rely on and the fear of death will begin to recede. Death needs to be a real possibility and when it is, you will see your players becoming more creative and better educated on what their PC's can do.

If they do go into this battle, despite your misgivings, have fun! When the Hezrou takes out the front line fighter, don't have the fighter go down. Have the Hezrou pick him up with those claws, clamp his jaws on the shoulder and rip the fighter apart. Make it cinematic and emphasize the sheer ferociousness of the NPCs.

A slight hijack on making combat dramatic - Roll the attack/damage, and then describe it. Don't look at the above example and think: Well, that would be a grapple and then next round he could rip him apart. Think: The fighter is dead from damage anyway. Did he just get swiped with a claw or can I make it cool and dramatic. My point is that once the PC's are our of HP, make the death dramatic so they can feel that masochistic glee. By the same token, do it with NPC's too. When the fighter finally takes out the Ogre Mage, it's not a hit and he dies thing. See if you can get the player to describe the attack, if not, then do it for him. "Fred the Fighter barely ducks under the Ogre Mage's sword. Seeing an opening, he lunges forward, then up, underneath the ribcage into the black heart of the Ogre Mage. Blood runs down his blade as Fred braces his foot on the Ogre Mage's chest and pulls the sword out. With a final kick, Fred pushes the Ogre Mage to one side, it's tongue lolling out of it's mouth, before he looks for the next combatant." OK, Randy the Rogue, what are you doing? As I said, once the combatant is dead, everything you do is cinematic. Make it fun.

 

[Balrog]

Thank you for all the replies.

I have put out strong hints already, and a couple players recognized enough to have the party use the alternate entrance. but after several encounters in the lower levels, they keep talking about going back up there. Now, in their defense, they are coming up with some good plans, but I think they underestimate the organization of these creatures.

They cant see the Cleric or Hezrou, as those are in rather large tent in the center of the encampment, but everything else they can see.

The PCs are 6 in number, with a cleric NPC in addition, and one animal companion. So, not exactly a small group. The highest level casters in the party are the NPC cleric and a dwarven rune master. They can both cast 6th level spells. There is also a multiclass rogue/mage who can cast 5th level spells. And they have a Druid who can cast 5th level spells.

and the players themselves are seasoned, as we have played as a group since 1st Edition AD&D.

You know, on second thought, I am probably underestimating the PCs........

I will just let the chips fall where they may. They have gotten out of tough scrapes in the past with cunning, and also luck on their side.

 

[tarchon]

Yeah, I'd just let them go for it. I'm not sure I'd even rate this as an especially tough one for 6 13th level characters (esp. with an extra cleric). Only 3 of the monsters are going to be a real challenge - they'll mow down the rest unless they put themselves in a really bad spot.

 

[dreaded_beast]

I say let them go for it.

However, I'm the type of DM that likes a "cinematic" campaign: where PCs face unbeatable odds and survive by the skin of their teeth. I guess I like the idea of "David vs. Goliath".

I'd like to reward bravery/courage, but then some others would call it stupidity. Each to his own.

 

[Chupacabra]

Please let us know how it turns out!

 

[Balrog]

Well, the campaign has taken a short break with differing schedules and what not, but we finally got together for a session last sunday and the PCs are still messing around in some of the lower levels of the Burial Halls.

However, we are meeting this sunday again, and perhaps this will be wrapped up after that. we will see. I will let ya'll know how it turns out.

 

[Emperor Valerian]

Let 'em go for it if they want. Who knows, they might win... As I've seen a 17th level party take out a CR 25 daughter of Asmodeus, I don't put anything past the dice anymore.

 

[the Jester]

Yeah, really, don't underestimate your pcs.

Let 'em go for it. If they're too cocky, they'll learn.

TPKs help establish that living through a tough fight isn't a given. It establishes that high level pcs worked up from 1st are definitely an achievement and not a given. Not all groups like this mood to the game- but mine seems to love it. And I love it in a game I'm playing.

The one thing I've noticed with 3e is that, sadly, starting all the pcs at 1st level is simply not viable anymore.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The PCs are 6 in number, with a cleric NPC in addition, and one animal companion. So, not exactly a small group. The highest level casters in the party are the NPC cleric and a dwarven rune master. They can both cast 6th level spells. There is also a multiclass rogue/mage who can cast 5th level spells. And they have a Druid who can cast 5th level spells.

From your description here, I'd suspect a TPK. Especially since the evil cleric (14th level) is able to get SR 26 and anti-life shell which makes him very difficult for either the low-caster-level casters or the fighters to hurt. Blasphemy will be devastating if he can catch enough people in it too.

Personally, I'd make sure that the NPC cleric does at least a divination, and probably they should do a commune as well; this gives the best possible opportunity to give them good quality information about the potential deadliness of the encounter.

The players in my game have over a hundred years AD&D experience between them (!!!) and I've found that has sometimes been a hindrance in combat... because 13th level characters in AD&D are very durable, in 3e they are pretty fragile in comparison and can easily go down in just 5 rounds of melee.

Cheerrs