My player is breaking my world [long]

Lizard Lips

First Post
ok... I've got a player... been playing for 20 years.. a bright guy. Too bright. He's got ideas for the use of spells that would turn my game world into something I'd hardly recognize. He's outlined his ideas as a letter from his character to his 'superiors'.

Background: The player is an elf, 4th level wizard... the elves have fallen behind in 'arcane' magic (I changed their favored class to bard rather than wizard). The player is out collecting info on arcane magic in an effort to increase the elves research into that area of magic.

Here's the letter. Please help me figure out how to stop all this stuff. I suppose I can just say 'it doesn't work', but that's lame.

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The following is highly secret. Though they should work in principal, I have not experimented with and in most cases not demonstrated the following concepts. Nor will I unless directed to by higher authority. To do so would risk their discovery by our competitors who are in a better position to implement them then we currently are.

Two spells. Two rather common arcane spells is all it may take to begin the return of the elves to their former glory. The first of the two spells, is commonly referred to as “Reduce”. If cast by an arcane practitioner of quite modest strength will shorten each of the three dimensions of a moderately large object, a very large chest or small cart for example, by half reducing the volume of course by one eighth. The reduction lasts only a short while, but long enough to greatly enhance the effect of the second spell, commonly referred to as “Shrink Item”. Shrink item is a much more powerful version of reduce. It is a significantly more difficult spell to master. It will shorten the dimensions of a smaller object by one twelfth, reducing volume by nearly a factor of two thousand! The effect of Shrink Item lasts for days. Using the two spells in combination, one can Reduce an item of large size to a size that can be treated effectively with Shrink Item, thereby greatly extending the effective size range of the Shrink Item spell.

While it isn’t surprising that the shortsighted humans have neither exploited nor even realized the import of these common spells, I’m sure the council will see the far reaching implications immediately. Although these spells are perhaps the least flashy and impressive to the humans, their usefulness when combined not only with each other, but with modern manufacturing and technology is tremendous.

The most obvious implication is transport. That is indeed the intended use of the more powerful Shrink Item. The extension of it’s useful size range however greatly magnifies its original usefulness. Consider a large block of dense material such as gold, iron or marble 5 ft by 4 ft by 2 1/2 ft. The weight of these blocks is approximately 30, 12 and 8 tons respectively. By shrinking them their weight becomes 35, 12 and 10 pounds. By preparing and casting the pair of these spells each day a wizard could transport 150, 60 or 40 tons of these materials on his person! An additional benefit is that should these materials be stolen, the thief, unless also a wizard, would not travel very far as he would soon find the weight of such items unbearable. Yet another benefit of the spell is that the material as it is shrunk may be transformed temporarily into cloth. This would go far in it’s disguise. Other simple spells are able to conceal the aura of magical enchantment which would be plain to other spellcasters. In short a mage could not only transport literally tons of material, but do so without anyone’s notice.

Transport, while rather mundane compared with the other potential uses of this pair of spells, I believe has the greatest potential impact on the vitality of our great nation. Consider how strong our trade would become if a horseman could transport tons of material. The military applications are perhaps too numerous to count. Consider how much more effective our warships would be carrying 40 extra tons of powder, shot and/or coal, but remaining light in their draft for best maneuvering and speed. How much quicker could a fortress be built if two or three 40 ton blocks of granite could be sent from a quarry over 100 miles away and lifted into place as easily as a simple house brick? Construction and production are often limited by the speed at which raw materials are transported to the site.

Another feature of this spell combination useful in production is scaling. Humans and especially dwarfs are perhaps skilled at assembling large bulky items such as ships or steam engines. Elves are second to none at crafting items of fineness and delicacy. By working with raw materials in their shrunken state, we can exploit our talents for the small scale in the construction of large items. Large items which require many craftsman a lot of time and tools to build can often be made on a twelfth scale by a single craftsman in less time by the use of molds or techniques similar to glassblowing. Consider the steam engine. Steam engines large enough to propel a warship are often made in sections and bolted together. The connections and seams are weak points which become the limiting factor in the pressure one can build up in a boiler. By molding or blowing a twelfth scale boiler chamber in a single piece, not only is it produced faster with fewer craftsman, but it is considerably superior in quality.

As an example, I shall describe the construction of a warship far superior to those in use today. To begin with a marble mold is constructed in one twelfth scale to match the shape of the outer hull of the ship size desired. Additionally, flat marble inserts to fit precisely into this mold can be made to fill in the base up to the level where each deck would be. Our fine craftsman should be able to create such a mold in fairly short order, but a spell commonly called “Stone Shape” would do the work in but a moment. A wizard would then reduce and then shrink as many large blocks of steel as he could in a day less then the maximum duration of his shrink spell. These shrunken blocks would then be melted (Note: The melting process would require far less fuel then it would on the full sized steel. This effect could greatly increase the efficiency of our smelting and other processes.) In crucibles and carefully poured into the heated marble mold so as to generate an even coating of the shrunken steel. Once it cools and contracts slightly, it can be removed from the mold and placed in a harbor and will expand to full scale the next day. A very similar process is performed to create flat deck plates. Since the molds could be reused the manufacture would be dependent only on the speed at which steel could be transported to the construction area and shrunk. By my calculations, even one with barely enough power to cast these spells, such as myself, would be able to make 56 ft wide by 280 ft long dreadnaught hulls of 2 inch thick steel every 5 days time. These hulls would be single piece construction, leak free and with no seams for weak points. Astoundingly they would weigh about the same as the 16 inch thick wooden war hulls currently made. Consider not just that they are harder and stronger then their wooden counterparts, but virtually impervious to fire which is more often then not the bane of a warship. Another example of a large scale item created faster with few craftsmen and in vastly superior quality.

Now consider an odd example of the use of this spell combination as a weapon. I’ve already described how 8 tons of rock may be turned into 10 lbs. Easily transportable by a man. A rare spell, though one I have obtained access to, allows a wizard to enable himself or another to fly through the air. By preparing some large boulders in a few days in advance a wizard could carry them high above an enemy ship or fortress then release the shrink item spell. The effect would be devastating. Even without the fly spell, we have trained hawks who could carry slightly smaller or “Reduced” loads.

In conclusion, it is plain to see the incredible value of arcane magic overall. When only two common spells can turn the fate of our nation, it only has to be wondered what other treasures lie waiting in the knowledge of the arcane. It is this agent’s recommendation that efforts to train mages be redoubled. It is clear that at the very least that is the first step toward implementation of these above procedures. More likely it will reveal a veritable treasure trove of new and innovative techniques like those described above which will change the course of our nation unimaginably toward the better. I am already researching other ideas which could be nearly as powerful as those described above.
 
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Shrink Item only affects non-magical items. Magically reduced items would seem to be, by definition, magical, at least for the duration of the spell.

You also can't release the Shrink spell at will, it would have to be dispelled, rendering the big reduced rock gambit fairly pointless.
 
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More points:

The work can't be done in miniature without some way of making the Reduce permanent.

Even then, imagine the finest detailed doll-house, or toy car. They wouldn't have remotely the kind of strength or usefulness if expanded to human size - they would be incredibly rough, with all flaws being magnified to the Nth degree. The metal would fail, and if it didn't it would be far thicker and bulkier once expanded.

Stone Shape allows on to form stone into a shape originally formed in clay - the results would be very rough.
 

OK.

First, breathe in and breathe out.

Second, the most important thing is for your group to have fun.

Third, most of that fun derives from storytelling and a "risk vs. reward" style of play. That is to set up appropriate challenges, have the players "risk" their characters, and recieve a reward for good play.

Fourth, you may have noticed I haven't addressed your problem yet.

Fifth, it sounds like your player is already having fun and enjoying your game world! Hoorah! This is GOOD!

Now. Let's tear his plans into tiny shreds.

1) You could rule that once Enlarge wore off the terms set by Shrink Item were no longer in effect.

2) His plans for making metal hulls is neat, but not that good. There's a reason why metalsmiths didn't make swords by dumping steel into sword-shaped molds: the metal won't hold together properly. His giant metal boats may very well crack under strain or use(*). Seriously. Just because something is metal doesn't mean it is automatically better than wood.

HOWEVER!

You may want to let him get away with it. Why not? It would put the party at the center of world-changing conflict. That's what you want, right?

Biggus Geekus

* As a point of historical order: The USA experimented with a ship made of concete during World War 2. The idea was to make lots of ships very quickly out of molds ... exactly what your elf is trying to do. There was one prototype made and it worked, but the US scrapped it. The ship was simply too brittle. We were afraid that it couldn't take a hit. Your metal-mold ships are going to be surprisingly thin. They'll float, sure. But a good dwarven ram or human balista will make a nice hole.
 

Intesting.

Transportation/Cargo: Very useful, but also easily defeatable. It isn't going to take the competition long to find out what is going on. Thanks for making it easy for me to steal that 10 ton load. Can't get far? No worries, mate. You're the guy on the road a few score or hundred miles from home. My hide-out is only a couple of miles away, or in that barn just over the hill.

Or I cast Dispel Magic on the merchant, who is killed by the sudden mass on his back, or finds his ship seriously over loaded (or top heavy, or may the Gods help him if the mass is near one of the side railings...)

Manufacturing: No Dice. I'm sure some engineer on this board can weigh in, but I would have severe problems with making a miniature boiler or ship from such reduced items, then using it in the large size. All I can think is that the smallest imperfection would be magnified exponentially (metal stress, minute fractures, pockets of impurities, etc.)
 

Also check the "type" of effect that each spell has. If it is the same since two "bonuses" don't stack, I don't see why two of the same effects would stack.
 

ok here you could think like an elf (dreadful thought i know!). A typical elven plan would take dozens if not 100's of years to enact and deploy on that large of a scale. Simply tell your player "Thanks for the info, come back in a few years and we will see".

In that time you can tear his plans to bit, while allow him to think that plans are being looked at. Remember elves live for thousands of years, why do something like that today when you have bigger things to concern yourself with, like finding out how many leaves can be grown on a tree over the course of a thousand years, etc...
 

BG, what the bejesus are you doing, taking all my good points from me?! ;)

Seriously, you said about everything I wanted to say, right down to the "but is it fun?" question.

A couple of ideas:

First, given the very real problems with the plan that BG pointed out, decide how his superiors will respond. This could range from the pretty bad ("You ignorant yearling, do not waste our time with such foolishness in the future! Signed, your superiors") to the pretty good ("Your ideas, while flawed, show comendalbe creativity and analysis. We are enclosing a copy of the Shrink Item spell, taken from the departed Lorien's spellbook, and encourage you to study it and copy it into your own records. Please inform us of any positive experiments you conduct with it. Signed, your superiors")

The merchant's trick is pretty good, and he might be able to get some sort of lucrative contract using it. If he really wants one. In fact, it may be that highly-financed projects DO use this trick: sometimes, it's worth paying 280 gp to get an item shrunk.

Finally, the working-on-items when they're small idea is interesting, even if it won't work on warships. What about using it to construct single-piece walls of stone? It might be a cheap way to construct fortresses. Of course, stone shape also makes it easy.

All in all, the player had an interesting idea; if possible, reward it.

Daniel
 

From the description of Reduce:

"Multiple magical effects that reduce size do not stack."

Still, the Shrink Item spell all by itself reduces weight by a factor of 2000 (one ton becomes one pound), so a man (or elf) could still easily carry 30-40 tons in a backpack.

Tenser's Floating Disk can carry 100 tons of shrunken material per caster level; since it takes a 7th level caster to cast Shrink Item, he could carry 700 tons on a floating disk.

A heavy horse (like a clydesdale) can carry 400 tons as a medium load, and can drag 3000 tons. An elephant can carry 1000 tons as a medium load.

Frankly, I think your player is being very creative and you should let him go with it. Granted, this is going to transform the campaign world, but it *is* the logical consequences of D&D's magic system, whether the rules admit it or not. If you don't want this sort of thing, my initial reaction is you need to either change the magic system or play a different game.

I'd suggest reading _The_Magic_of_Recluce_ for some good ideas on a scientific and logical approach to magic, as well as some potential drawbacks and limitations. In that book, there ARE steam-powered iron dreadnoughts shaped by magic, but the world still has a fantasy feel to it.

Mike
 


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