My player is breaking my world [long]

[Tsyr]

Aside from the fact that you most likely cannot work with miniaturized materials at all, no one in tme middle ages time frame would believe a metal boat would float. That thought would most likely be met by ridicule until proved.

The logic, quite simple, would be:

Wood floats, ergo a wood boat will float.

Metal sinks, ergo a metal boat will sink. Unless, of course, some form of magic was used to make the metal float like wood.

1) No where in the spell description does it say you cannot work with miniturized material, to my knowledge, and thus I see no reason to belive you couldn't.

2) People weren't stupid back then. The greeks knew hollow things made of metal would float. Heck, toss a metal cooking pot in the water and watch it float. It doesn't take much imagination or brilliance to figure it out.

3) DnD is not a mideval world! It has some medival trappings, but its not a mideval world. First, in the "standard" DnD world, the AVERAGE person is at least semi literate... this wasn't true in most of the "medival" world. Second, magic, the thought processes of different races (Dwarves and gnomes technologicly, elves spiritualy and magicly, etc etc), the proven existance of gods, the undead and other planes, etc etc... have so altered the way the world 'is' that you can't compare it to any time in earth history. Just because one thing did not happen in the mideval world on earth doesn't mean it wouldn't in a DnD world, and the inverse is also true... I mean, heck, we are asked to belive that the average DnD world has basicly held constant at its level of technology for hundreds and thousands of years... this is not anything LIKE how it happened in the real world.

 

[Zappo]

A lot of arguments here have relied on science: crystallization of metals and so forth. One thing to keep in mind here is that this is fantasy and applying physics to it is a dangerous rathole. Sure you can use physics to kill this application, but once you've set the precedent you open the door to using physics to REALLY abuse the system. Saying "no, because of X" implies that it's okay as long as you can find a way around X. Whatever standard you use to defeat this will be the standard the player uses to try again.

If the original poster wanted to ignore physics and decide the outcome arbitrarily, why did he ask in the first place?

Anyway, the character likely won't ever figure out that the prototype sunk because of flaws in the crystalline structure of metal. He'll probably write an essay about how worked metal in miniaturized form becomes very brittle for no apparent reason and that's it.

 

[jasper]

Dm Reduce
SRD Multiple magical effects that reduce size do not stack.
So you can either reduce or shrink item.

Dear Mr. Elf Lizard Lips,
According to the Wizards, Sorcerers, and plumbers Union 137, the spells reduce and Shrink item duplicate the similar affects so only the first spell, which is a cast result in affect on the item.

Shrink item is a 3 rd level spell requires either a 5-circle wizard or 6-circle sorcerer.

Transport of items or ingots.
The wizard could shrink an item up to 10 cubic feet, which becomes a 5 ft by 2 ft by 1-foot ingot.
The sorcerer could shrink an item up to 12 cubic feet, which becomes a 6 ft by 2 ft by 1 ft ingot.
Gold weighs 1188.6 pounds per cubic foot source http://www.18carat.co.uk/densityofgoldandothermetals.html note this almost pure weight.
10 cubic feet of gold would be 1188.6 PDS x 10 = 11,886 PDS or 594,300 gp. After casting, the ingot would about 5.943 PDS and
5 inches by 2 inches by 1 inch. This would be same size for all blocks
Marble weights 170 PDS per cubic foot
10 cubic feet of marble would be 1700 PDS. After casting the block would be .85 of a pound
Pure iron 490 PDS per cubic foot
10 cubic feet of iron would be 4900 PDS. After casting the block would be 2.45 PDS.
http://usa.spis.co.nz/fitz/roleplay/weight_chart.html iron and marble source

Note ingots or stone would have to be approx 2.1544 ft per side.

Why transport of large, heavy shrunken items may have possibilities? The following objections have been noted.
The spell is ended when tossed on a solid surface so the lawsuits and blood feud from the teamsters due to less than diligence care and handling. Imagine Bubba teamster Surprise when his small packing envelope explodes to reveal a 5 foot wall of gold has just crush his fingers and wagon.
If the wizard accompanies the item, a guard force would have to be hired.
Dispelling magic may and will cause harm to the transport team. Again Wizards, Sorcerers, and plumbers Union 137 rather be required to tackle an ancient 3 rd edition red dragon and 1 st edition 15-circle bard than have the teamsters wanting to talk the situation over.

Steel boats. Very interesting. Steel is approximately 500 pds per cubic foot.


Casting shrunken boats to create a navy.
Problems
Great care will taken in smelting / melting process. Any loss due to spillage will result in large blobs of heavy metal appearing every 5 days in the worker place causing worker elf claims compensation to increase.
Molds made be destroyed if the mold is not totally material free.
Any defects in the original mold will be increase 12 times in the unreduced state.
A solid metal ship may work but will be subject to great stresses. A wooden plank can be shored up.
Rust monsters would destroy a steel fleet in a night.

DM NOTE. Possible would allow this but would currently make craft item DC very high.

Other notes
Stone shape is a 3- level divine or 5-level arcane spell. Which will require 5-circle cleric/druid. Or will require a 9-circle wizard, 10-circle sorcerer. Furthermore since you are only of the 4?circle, you may know the spell allows you to shape stone. While it?s possible to make crude coffers, doors, and so forth with stone shape, fine detail isn?t possible. There is a 30% chance that any shape including moving parts simply doesn?t work.

research into Improved Stone Shape is in progress but it will be 2 levels higher in power.

Thank you for you letter,
Bo C Fuss Bear O Crat.



The player may be smart. But needs to read the book.