My players seem unable to kill my bad guy... (if you're in my game, don't read)
- Thread starter Arravis
- Start date
Agamon
Adventurer
CR 35. Obviously, they're meant to outsmart him, not confront him. Yes, outsmart a wizard, a lich, a mind flayer, and 24th level. Hmmm, if he's run correctly, that just shouldn't be possible. His intelligence should be through the roof, and he should be able to figure out the party's plans A through ZZ before they even consider them themselves. The only bone to throw would be that he's haughty and overconfident, and I doubt he'd be where he is with traits like those.
Maybe they're just meant to defeat his plans and not him? That'd make more sense.
Maybe they're just meant to defeat his plans and not him? That'd make more sense.
Well...
Talon, I''ve always been amazed and the resourcefulness of my players and I won't be at all surprised if they succeed. And they were able to defeat him in combat, just not destroy him. What makes him "poweful" could easily be done by any 17th level wizard, so the issue isn't so much the CR, but the protections.
btw, Agamon gets a cookie, that was exactly the idea... but they decided to fight him, lol. But, I'm still convinced they could defeat him. The silver cord idea would work nicely I think... risky, and tough. They would have to find the color pool, either the one to the prime or the one to his plane. Cause the cord is only visible for a few feet and that's it... but I'm certain there is a way.
Talon, I''ve always been amazed and the resourcefulness of my players and I won't be at all surprised if they succeed. And they were able to defeat him in combat, just not destroy him. What makes him "poweful" could easily be done by any 17th level wizard, so the issue isn't so much the CR, but the protections.
btw, Agamon gets a cookie, that was exactly the idea... but they decided to fight him, lol. But, I'm still convinced they could defeat him. The silver cord idea would work nicely I think... risky, and tough. They would have to find the color pool, either the one to the prime or the one to his plane. Cause the cord is only visible for a few feet and that's it... but I'm certain there is a way.
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Agamon
Adventurer
Re: hey!
I assume by the smiley, that you weren't serious about the first statement.
They're taking this guy on, and their not even well equiped? No offense, man, but if I was one of the players, I'd know how to defeat this guy: bop the DM in the nose
Arravis said:Hey, munchkiness is allowed of NPC's, not of players though...
The players are actually not that well equipped, and please don't tell me that you assume ALL 18th lvl parties are munchkin, cause that is not true.
I assume by the smiley, that you weren't serious about the first statement.
They're taking this guy on, and their not even well equiped? No offense, man, but if I was one of the players, I'd know how to defeat this guy: bop the DM in the nose
Well..
They aren't horribly equipped, but they don't have relics or any real massive uber-stuff. They don't all have +5 items, and such. They are what I would consider balanced for their level. They aren't munchkin, compared to almost all 18th lvl character's that I've seen in other gaming groups. Where everyone has a hand of vecna, hand of kas and a staff of the magi.
Anyway, one thing they do have is a large amount of allies, and clerics are in their ranks, so they could possibly get a 18th level cleric... so that's a possability.
They aren't horribly equipped, but they don't have relics or any real massive uber-stuff. They don't all have +5 items, and such. They are what I would consider balanced for their level. They aren't munchkin, compared to almost all 18th lvl character's that I've seen in other gaming groups. Where everyone has a hand of vecna, hand of kas and a staff of the magi.
Anyway, one thing they do have is a large amount of allies, and clerics are in their ranks, so they could possibly get a 18th level cleric... so that's a possability.
Agamon
Adventurer
Re: Well...
He's CR 35, how can that be undone by a 17th level wizard? What's next for them, head on down to the Abyss to take out Orcus?
Oooh, a cookie! I understand now, it's stubborn, unwise players. I can relate, as most DMs can, I'm sure.
I'm not sure why your trying to come up with a plan for them to defeat him, though. Your job should be the opposite, I would think. I, for one, live by the "stupid players run dead PCs" motto. Fight an opponent that can obviously and easily defeat you and you deserve what you get.
Arravis said:
He's CR 35, how can that be undone by a 17th level wizard? What's next for them, head on down to the Abyss to take out Orcus?
Oooh, a cookie! I understand now, it's stubborn, unwise players. I can relate, as most DMs can, I'm sure.
I'm not sure why your trying to come up with a plan for them to defeat him, though. Your job should be the opposite, I would think. I, for one, live by the "stupid players run dead PCs" motto. Fight an opponent that can obviously and easily defeat you and you deserve what you get.
Agamon
Adventurer
Re: Well..
Well, I should hope not. Though I can understand why some people might think that was the case. It is a L17 party vs a CR 35 opponent, after all....
That's good, at L17, they should have plenty of resources and favours to call in. But what of the Alhoon? Is he alone? He should have underlings that have underlings that should be more than a match for the party, IMO.
The silver cord idea shouldn't be possible. That's the most obvious way to defeat him, I'm hoping something that smart and powerful would have thought of that. Also, my opinion.
Arravis said:
Well, I should hope not. Though I can understand why some people might think that was the case. It is a L17 party vs a CR 35 opponent, after all....
That's good, at L17, they should have plenty of resources and favours to call in. But what of the Alhoon? Is he alone? He should have underlings that have underlings that should be more than a match for the party, IMO.
The silver cord idea shouldn't be possible. That's the most obvious way to defeat him, I'm hoping something that smart and powerful would have thought of that. Also, my opinion.
Agamon
Adventurer
Re: Well,
And I'm just saying, that that's not your problem. If they figure out a way, kudos to them. If they don't, oh well. You should let them figure it out themselves, though. If you tell them how, either yourself, or through an NPC, that really cheapens the victory, and is railroading in a sense, which is, once more IMO, a bad thing.
And even a whole L17 party shouldn't be able to scratch a CR 35. I played with a first time DM not long ago. I told him not to make the CRs much higher than our L7 PCs. He didn't really listen; out final battle, which we needed to fight as it was in self defense with little chance of escape, was against a CR 14 wizard and his charmed CR 16 lackey (plus a couple CR 7 monsters to boot!) Even though he ran the encounter rather poorly, we all ended up dying from a Circle of Death spell (14d4 levels killed instantly, Save DC 27 - talk about your munchy NPCs
). And that was double the CR of our level, which is what os similar to your situation...
Arravis said:
And I'm just saying, that that's not your problem. If they figure out a way, kudos to them. If they don't, oh well. You should let them figure it out themselves, though. If you tell them how, either yourself, or through an NPC, that really cheapens the victory, and is railroading in a sense, which is, once more IMO, a bad thing.
And even a whole L17 party shouldn't be able to scratch a CR 35. I played with a first time DM not long ago. I told him not to make the CRs much higher than our L7 PCs. He didn't really listen; out final battle, which we needed to fight as it was in self defense with little chance of escape, was against a CR 14 wizard and his charmed CR 16 lackey (plus a couple CR 7 monsters to boot!) Even though he ran the encounter rather poorly, we all ended up dying from a Circle of Death spell (14d4 levels killed instantly, Save DC 27 - talk about your munchy NPCs
). And that was double the CR of our level, which is what os similar to your situation...
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