My players seem unable to kill my bad guy... (if you're in my game, don't read)

[Arravis]

Well..

I'm considering possabilities. I might drop a VERY vague hint or two. I'm trying to avoid specifics as to the Alhoon's situation in case some of my players do read this... so sorry if I sound vague. Suffice it to say that within his home plane, he has no real allies. Alhoons are hated by other illithids, ussually destroyed when possible. I think that's something they could use to their advantase, especially since this Alhoon has done many evils against his own people.

 

[Oogar]

Hmmm, If I were the "Big Bad" and my astral self had just been smacked - what would I do?

I think I would pretend to be dead until the parties guard was down, then kill them. Or ignore them until they got in my way again. How do the players know that he is still out there? What exactly do your players KNOW for certain?

I tend to want lots of info, because there can often be a simple solution if I have more facts.

 

[Zappo]

It's not a problem of CR 35 vs 17; after all, we know that CRs don't really work past 20. He is not that more powerful. However, he is really, really, much more powerful than the party, and he should be among the most intelligent creatures in the multiverse.

He would go around with a Mind Blank spell always active. That would fool every divination short of that 9th level psionic power that also costs XP to be manifested, and keep his silver cord safe too. So much for the silver cord idea.

Even if the PCs know a way to his world, they will not be able to find him. A world is a big place to search . Especially when the target uses Mind Blank 24/7.

There's no realistic way they can defeat him. Actually, I wonder how they will survive the next encounter, because now the monster knows that they like to teleport away and will probably cast multiple Dimensional Anchors before even starting the real combat.

 

[Tzarevitch]

If you're in my game, don't read please.

So here's the scenario, 18th level party, 1 wiz, 1 sorc, 1 rogue-fighter, 1 rogue, 1 ranger-druid. The bad guy is a 20th lvl wiz, 4 epic levels (as per FR), alhoon (undead illithid). The guy is astrally projecting from plane X, he knows the location of a color pool to the prime, he goes through it, creating a duplictate body complete with duplicate items. So, if the party kills him, they are only killing the astral body duplicate, no harm done to the baddy. Even if they somehow found his home plane, there's still the issue of the phylactry. he party fought this guy once, he killed everyone on the first round. Thank god for the caster's continegencies, they returned after porting out, semi reviving part of the party and defeated the bad guy, of course... just an astral body, so the guy is still totally unhurt...

Poor guys... so, how would you handle this? I've already been given one excellent suggestion on how to take this guy out, but I don't wish to post it just yet .

-Arravis

Your party doesn't seem to be much on gathering intelligence before they confront foes. The wizard at least should be cabable of using Discern Location or Contact Other Plane to try and figure out what the party is facing. The lack of a high level priest is also a problem because they are lacking some of the good anti-undead spells. They also can't use Divination or Commune to help with their intel gathering (Commune is usually more reliable than Contact Other Plane). The PCs also need to make sure that they gather intel on things that are not likely to be protected by Mind Blank.

I heartily disagree with the complaints that a lvl 18 party can't take out a CR 25 (or 27 or 35 or whatever he is) foe. Once you hit very high levels, the CR system breaks down badly and it becomes a very poor guage of what a party is capable of tackling. Once you hit the points where you can disintegrate, slay or implode something with a failed save, the CR tends not to matter much. Actually, the alhoon can be destroyed (and returned to its phylactery) by a character more than 10 CRs lower than it is if it fails even one save against certain spells.

The problem is that it sounds like the PCs weren't aware of what they were facing. Once they find out exactly what it is they are facing and what abilities he can use, the challenge isn't insurmountable. Greater dispel for example, can strip the alhoon of most of its defensive spells. An anti-magic field will strip the alhoon of ALL of its non-extraordinary abilities and allow someone with good melee capability to take it out (and drive it into its phylactery). Unfortunately the party seems to be lacking in fighter-types so this approach won't work well. They seem to be too dependent on sneak attacks (which won't work against undead.)

Honestly the party's composition strikes me as their biggest problem after the lack of accurate intel, not the alhoon's level. They have too many middleweight fighters, and no real heavy fighter who can tackle a strongly magic-resistant creature, a golem or a sturdy undead. They also have no cleric to clear out large masses of low to mid-level undead easily and their detection and divinaiton abilities are limited to the wizard (sorcerers and druids make lousy diviners).


Tzarevitch

 

[Zerovoid]

18th level PC's should have plenty of ways to take this guy down. Between Scrying, and the high level divination spells like Contact Outer Plane, they should be able to find some way to figure out where he is. If they lack the skills to deal with this problem, they should seek out a sage or something who has more experience in dealing with the planes, and can direct them to either this guy's location, or a method to discern it.

 

[Galfridus]

Divination spells to find the phylactery, Mord's Disjunction (repeat as needed, or just smash it).

Either that, or get your thief to steal the "3" off his CR. Once he's CR 5 you should have no problem.

 

[Agamon]

If he does have a weakness, it is that he's all alone. No matter the CR or Level (well to an extent), baddies that fight by themselves will be overwhelmed by a party of PCs. I can understand Arravis' explanation as to why he's a loner, but he should have many undead minions, pacts with other otherplanar evil creatures, etc. The party should never be able to catch him off gaurd and certainly not with all their resources at full.

You can't underestimate the Alhoon's intelligence. If he's defeatable by the 17th level party now, haw did he last so long and get so far? Not by leaving any openings against the many enemies he was said to have had.

 

[Squire James]

The Alhoon now sees the PC's as a legit threat, and probably considers himself lucky the players haven't caught on that he's an astrally-projecting illithid lich (maybe 2 of the 3, but not all 3). While it would be tempting to attack the PC's over and over again, the PC's will figure him out sooner or later. So he does his own divination project, and takes some time to enslave some "allies" of his own (maybe the nature of the allies tips off which plane he lives on!). Send the minions after the party and scry on them from elsewhere (the PC's have a chance of locating the scryer). Enslave some of the PC's allies and try to mess up their other alliances.

In other words, make him a long-term villain, one that the players will want to extend the campaign until they have dealt with him once and for all. Do other adventures, and let the Alhoon meddle with them somewhat. Just because he CAN kill the PC's doesn't mean he WANTS to! Perhaps he can manipulate the PC's into getting an item he wants from an area where undead and magical/psionic compulsions cannot exist. Perhaps said item also allows the PC's to locate his phylactery if they think to do so before they can leave the area (and be subject to the Alhoon's best compulsion abilities to give him the object).

Will this do?

 

[clockworkjoe]

Bah.

You can easily give your party a fair chance to beat this guy.

Here are some things I thought of off the top of my head

1. Achilles Heel/Kryptonite: Flayer is extremely vulnerable to substance/spell/attack method/phrase/plane/creature X.

2. Bizzare behavior: Flayer has an odd exploitable behavior, such as making an annual pilgrimage to area X where he meditates for an hour completely vulnerable to attack except for much weaker guardians. Or Flayer has an addictive behavior towards action X and will purse a personal goal no matter the cost to himself such as deciding to kill ALL other mind flayers or challenging a god.

3. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Uber Pit fiend/Celestial/Whatever really really hates this flayer. Enemy approaches players to launch a joint attack on the flayer.

4. Flayer is cursed: Flayer is doomed, no matter what happened, sorta like a greek hero. No matter what happens, the flayer will die at a certain point and is actively trying to avoid this but the fates are always right.

5. Flayer is unstable: His powers are unstable and are always fluxucating. Thus at sometimes he is much weaker than usual.

6. Flayer retires/gives up on whatever he's doing.

7. Players make heavy use of planar ally/binding spells and summon a small army of planetars and other heavy hitting creatures.


Does that help?

 

[Arravis]

well...

Some interesting comments everyone

Well, some clarfications... just hope none of my players read this, lol...

this Alhoon has been manipulating the party since around level 4. Him and a VERY old elf (whom is also an outcast) had been playing a insidious game of chess with the party. Seems that after millenia, you get bored... and you have to do things to keep yourself sharp and sane. So these two kindred spirits decided that chess would be how they do it. The elf sends his minions to manipulate the party, ussually in a move against the minions of the alhoon, then the alhoon gets a turn vs. the elf. They have specific game rules they follow and basicly many of the adventures became one move by one or the other. It took nearly a year to unfold this plot mind you. All done very subtlely.

The big twist was when the elf was discovered to be one of the manipulators... and sometimes fate works in strange ways... he fell in love with one of the party members. So after unumerable plot twists he confessed to the entire plot and decided to quit out of the chess game. The alhoon did not take kindly to this and now considers them all their enemy.

The alhoon unfortunately isn't exactly free to do as he wishes. He's a very old figure in illithid history... he is THE first alhoon. He lived in an alternate prime material that the illithids had mostly conqured. They ruled several worlds within. In one of those worlds the Alhoon rose to power, experimenting with genetics, unlife, and foul magics. As he grew in power, his experiments became larger and larger. His power became so much, his experiments involved the entire world he lived in. Over time killing most of the world he lived in, including his own people.

When the other illithids found out about this, they all turned on him. They weren't able to defeat him, but they did imprison him within the planet (100 or so illithids still live there, keeping guard). He cannot escape, but he can astrally project, so he found a sort of freedom in that. He is seeking a way out of his prison, continues his experiments and he has other ambitions (this is a FR campaign, he wishes to pick up where Karsus left off and succeed where Karsus failed, but that's a VERY long term plan).

So that's the situation with this alhoon.