My problem with autofire

[ThoughtBubble]

Ok, so autofire targets an area with a spray of bullets. Effective AC 10, requires a reflex save vs 15 to everyone in the area to avoid damage. I have a problem with armor not having an effect on this. I just cant see having a big piece of bullet resistant material between me and the bullets not helping. I'm less happy when I realize that armor often has enough penalties associated with it to seem inferior to a high dex, and typically only gets worn to expected gunfights. Here we have a situation where the character's dex bonus still applies, but armor doesn't, and I have a hard time seeing the reason why.

So, do you think it'd be a bad idea to include your armor bonus to that save? Can you think of reasons not to include it? Can you think of better methods?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lysander]

The best method I've heard of, or at least the one I like the best, is to treat the armor as cover, and grant the appropriate cover bonus to the reflex save. So a vest may be considered 1/4 cover, and thus give you a +1 on your save against autofire, or something to that effect. I think it's more balanced than adding your actual armor bonus to the save.

(See page 145 of the core rulebook for save bonuses from cover.)

 

[Plane Sailing]

Another alternative is to switch over to an armour = DR system.

Another alternative is to use the system Wulf is developing for "Grim Tales" and add armour value to the massive damage threshold - it won't reduce the hp damage but reduces the chance of suffering a massive damage check.

Cheers

 

[Dread0395]

ONe of the easiest things to do is to have bulet resistant materail (like Kevlar) provide DR 5 or 10 vs. ballistic in this case. It's the easiest rules change in this case.

Eric the Dread0395

 

[Ranger REG]

So, do you think it'd be a bad idea to include your armor bonus to that save? Can you think of reasons not to include it? Can you think of better methods?

Thanks in advance.

I'd rather treat it as a cover bonus. You may be wearing kevlar vest but in an area attack saturated by a hail of bullets, you're not fully protected (head, pelvis, groin, arms, hands, legs, and feet are exposed).

Cover is your friend, dude, unless you're emulating a Rambo/Commando/Predator/Terminator campaign.

 

[paulewaug]

right crime! wrong suspect?

Ranger REG makes a good point about cover being your friend vs. auto fire.

Also, and "alternative alternative" is not to treat armor differently,
but that maybe the problem is with the way auto fire itself works.

Perhaps using a different system for auto fire could be the solution.
I don't have them but iirc it seems that Spycraft and Dragonstar have different ways of doing autofire than d20Mod does?

I'm pretty sure I have read around here that the Dragonstar method was pretty well liked?

I'm sure there are some helpful people around here that could compare the different types?

 

[Psion]

I just switch to the Arsenal rules and replace their burst and strafe feats with Arsenal's improved burst fire and suppression fire. Among other improvements, the suppresion fire rules roll hits against the target's defense instead of using reflex saves.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I just switch to the Arsenal rules and replace their burst and strafe feats with Arsenal's improved burst fire and suppression fire. Among other improvements, the suppresion fire rules roll hits against the target's defense instead of using reflex saves.

Psion--

I don't have Arsenal, but from the sounds of it, Arsenal's suppression fire is analogous to Spycraft's strafe. Is that about right?

In Spycraft, suppression fire is more of a "fire for effect" with the intent not being so much to hit the targets as to get them to duck and cover.

Wulf

 

[Psion]

I don't have Arsenal, but from the sounds of it, Arsenal's suppression fire is analogous to Spycraft's strafe. Is that about right?

In Spycraft, suppression fire is more of a "fire for effect" with the intent not being so much to hit the targets as to get them to duck and cover.

Er, I don't think it works quite the same way as Spycraft. Not at home so I can't check either book, but I seem to remember Spycraft rules being a bit different, cause you to duck or be subject to the effect, where Arsenal rules basically create a hazardous area effect.