My problem with vile darkness

[Xarlen]

Certainly hope you are saying that as morales for the time and not starting something about homosexuality in current times.

Absolutely. I have nothing against anyone's kinks, as long as no one gets hurt (non-cosentually) in the process.

Simply, that at the time, this was seen as bad and horrible. Heck, sex for anything other then purely reproductive was seen as Wrong*.

*Interestingly enough, a little religious history, Jesus didn't teach celibacy. He was celibate himself, and thus might have taught it by example, but did not teach it. The reason the first generation was so hard on sex was because they believed Christ was going to come within their generation, and saw little reason to procreate. I love my Sociology class.

Edit: I'm not saying homosexuality is vile, at All. I'm speaking on Biblical evil in history, and nothing else.

 

[Dragongirl]

Absolutely. I have nothing against anyone's kinks, as long as no one gets hurt (non-cosentually) in the process.

Kinks? I don't care for comparing homosexuality to kinks. I have a gay brother and have had to go through years of hearing crap from people.

 

[Xarlen]

Kinks? I don't care for comparing homosexuality to kinks. I have a gay brother and have had to go through years of hearing crap from people.

Kinks, Persuasion, What You Enjoy, What Floats your Boat, How You Live Your Life.

In other words, I don't mind what people enjoy. My interests aren't exactly on the beaten path, and I have a few homosexual friends too. So I'm not going to pass judgement. Do what you're called too, y'know?

 

[Nightfall]

Easy there DG! Xar I suggest you not post any more for fear of you losing limbs. Anyway this is QUICKLY degernating here folks.

I read the preview of Champions of Darkness, for Ravenloft. Have to say the two ARE pretty comparable. Stuff about vampires, and evil prestige classes. No feats that I could see but I could be wrong.

 

[Kibo]

Kinks? I don't care for comparing homosexuality to kinks. I have a gay brother and have had to go through years of hearing crap from people.

Careful now. Xarlen has stated many times that when confronted by draconic individuals he tends to wet himself, prodigiously! There's more than your brother at stake, there's officer furniture to consider!

BTW Xarlen is straight!

(straight!!)

 

[Xarlen]

Hehe.

Let's not forget the polymorphed dragons (In neck braces, Just In Case).

 

[Claude Raines]

With the BoVD out now, DMs are rejoicing with the new opportunities to make their villians depraved and as vile as possible. In spite of the hype, the BoVD presents a pulp view of evil, rather than presenting a manual to role play more "realistic" villians in ones campaign. I mean the BoVD seems to equate evil with shocking and gross, rather than present true evil. While shocking and gross things work well for a four-color or pulp campaign, they aren't necessarily a true depiction of evil.

All these shocking, gross and evil feats and prestige classes from the BoVD work for the stereotypical pulp fantasy, but they don't have much to do with real evil. Rather than truely explore evil and how to create effective villians, BoVD just regurgitates the standard pulp fantasy evil.

I'm probably starting some sort of flame war now, but I have to know if you have already read the book so you can make such a statement that all the BoVD does is make evil icky & gross. After all, the name was chosen because it was the name of an item in the DMG. Monte Cook says on his own message board that it will most likely be much less "vile" (e.g. shocking and gross) than most people expect.

Does that mean that there is nothing in there that is vile or pulp fantasy? No. But from what Monte has written about the book, it seems to be a far cry from just a manual on how to make villains more disgusting. Point in case, we have descriptions of 4 PrCs already on this message board:

Ok, as requested, a quick summary of all PrCs.

Cancer Mage - despite the name, it's more a rogue-oriented class. 10 levels. You get some sneak attack, a cancerous tumor that acts as your familiar, some different types of armor, you can carry diseases and cause them, you can create intelligent diseases and take disease form yourself. Utterly disgusting.

Demonologist - Conjurations specialists (demons, of course). 10 levels. You can charm demons, hold demons, and dominate demons, get a quasit familiar, summoning mastery, demonic resistances, telepathy, and poison immunity. However you have a paladin-like spells per day and a limited spell list.

Diabolist - Mostly wizards wanting to be really powerful and have chosen hell's path to do so. You get +1 caster level each of the 10 levels. You can add extra power (evil power) to you spells, you get an imp familiar, and can eventually add vile damage to your spells.

Disciple of Asmodeus - You want ulimate power. 10 level class. You get 6 spellcasting levels. You gain abilities like charm and command. You can learn secrets (bonuses to Gather Info checks), summon devils, and get some favor from Asmodeus himself.

More later, must go to work!

Out of these four, only one is gross and disgusting. The others seem to give mechanics for traditional villains. Maybe the other three are a bit of pulp fantasy in that selling one's soul to the devil is par for the course, but they hardly revel in making things just shocking and gross. And we can certainly think of real life evil people who would have pursued these paths if they had been open to them in the real world.

In any event, I don't want to try to prove there is nothing vile in the book. That is silly. What I want to know from you is if you actually have the knowledge that all the book does is "equate evil with shocking and gross, rather than present true evil."

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

What's the fuss all about? In the American Psychological Association's DSM (Diagnostic Manual) Homosexuality is determined to be mental disorder, and a sexually deviant behavior.

Certainly, some people agree entirely, while others disagree with that position. It doesn't mean that anyone needs to get emotional or obnoxious over it though. Historically, homosexuality was rampant through the later stages of the Roman Empire, as were all manner of other sexual behaviors. Historically, Christianity has described homosexuality and many other sexual behaviors as sinful and wrong.

Carrying on, though, these are merely historical examples. It could easily be seen in any particular campaign, for example, that polygamy is sinful and evil, while in another kingdom, it is acceptable behavior, and so on with many other types of examples.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Dragongirl]

Temporarily withholding my views on what SHARK said. Just ask that the thread be closed.

 

[Xarlen]

Hey, DG.

I tried to email you an apology/explination on the misunderstanding, and it sent back you wern't recieving emails. Is there some kinda function you can turn emails off with?