My Romanesque World

[Brennin Magalus]

Interesting. To add to the wealth of advice and questions I have the following.

1. Historicity. How close to real world history does it adhere? Is it more in the general overview or in the small details? For example, does the history of your Roman Empire include the plagues that swept the Balkans in the 3rd century?

It depends. The people and events most important to me are featured in one form or another.

2. Could you give us further details on how you're handling non-humans? On that subject, See if you can get ahold of a copy of Hinterwelt Enterprise's Roma Imperious. Borrowed or bought used (I would not recommend paying full price for it, it has problems). That said, it does featuring an interesting fantasy Roman Empire. One of the best parts is its treatment of dwarfs. The dwarfs of Roma Imperious being varied in nature. Most of them being nasty little stunties who are into kidnapping people and either eating them (most of the them) or transforming them into dwarfs (the rest).

Well, my dwarves are pretty standard (although their favored class is artificer and they have the traits of FR gold dwarves). My "high" elves live in an extra-dimensional land of sunshine and peace known as Huperborea. They have the traits of FR star elves except their favored class is sorcerer.

3. On the subject of a fantasy Rome, may I recommend Thomas Harlan's Oath of Empire tetralogy. A four book series which (you might say) tells the story of how Morgoth (Prince Maxian Atreus), Sauron (Lord Dahak), and Gandalf (the Prophet Mohammed) came to be. Okay, silliness aside, it is a good read, and has tons of information on the world of OoE which you could use, suitably altered, in your world. (BTW, Mohammed was originally a minor character, but Tom got to reading up on him and got to like him. Changed the course of the story entirely.)

Thank you for the recommendation, but any fiction that has Muhammad as a hero is not likely something I would be interested in.

4. For further reading on the subject of fantasy Rome get yourself a copy of Fulminata. Adamant Press is doing a d20 version. Or you can check out the original

Isn't Fulminata "Romans with firearms?" That is not a concept that appeals to me.

5. Goths and Germans: The Goths were Germans, as far as I know. The Goths were simply the largest German nation at the time. It should also be noted that the Skands (our Norwegians, Danes, and Swedes) had yet to emerge entirely from their German forebearers, and that the proto-Skands were just starting to explore and colonize the Scandinavian penninsula.

Yes, Goths were Germans, but by the 4th century they had sufficiently differentiated themselves from the Germans of North Western Europe as to be considered distinct (at least by the Romans).

Since you are planning on making the Goths orcs and the Germans shifters, may I recommend to following?: The Germans are descended from the Goths (so to speak) and thus are evolved orcs who have become shape-changers. An ancient boon or curse. The proto-Skands are orcs who are evolving into goblins.

I am not enamored with the concept of speciation IRL, so it probably will not be featured in my game.

For a Tolkeinesque touch, make the Finns the proto-Skand proto-goblins are displacing wood elves. And add in trolls as the pre-Finn/pre-Skand aboriginal inhabitants of Scandinavia.

Since my great-great grandmother was a Finn, I have thought of working them in, but I need to read the Kalevala first.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

What role do wizards have in this Romanesque world?

They maintain libraries, help with public works projects or support the legions with their magic. In any event, they are strictly regulated.

My homebrew world includes a Romanesque history. The ceasers were replaced with wizard-kings which resulted in a single long lived tyrant modeled in the spirit of Glen Cook's Lord and Lady. Their eventual fall, the sack of Rome and the creation of an eastern and Western empires.

An interesting take on things.

For more info on Rome, I highly sugest Livy's books on Rome, particularly the earliest histories and legends of Rome. You get a good feel of what Rome was based on and the cultural mythology they lived in.

A good recommendation. He was wrong about the Kelts, though.

Also, if you have a romanesque world, you need a Trojanesque history since the earliest Romans were said to be Trojans and much of their early history was fighting and joining with other Trojan settlements to defend themselves against the native populations.[/QUOTE]

I don't know that I am much interested in that etiology, especially since I like Turnus more that Aeneas.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Was the Lorica even used that actively by the fourth century?

I really wouldn't rate it as high as plate armor. One of the the things that Adrianople demonstrates is that Roman technology was effectively becoming obsolete.

But I would make it high quality medium armor without the movement penalty.

On a complete and utterly silly sidenote, Arius?!

Have you considered how magic would influence Rome's opponents? Would the barbarians really be worse at it than the Romans?

Prior to the Christians or their analog Rome's religious tradition seems too disorganized to really bring together the sort of clerical powerhouses the East would have been used to and the Barbarians would have imported from the Druidic Kelts or Shamanic Plains groups. Adopting the Christian analogue might very well be motivated by a desire to close the gap on divine magic. Arcane magic would have been an early issue, but perhaps the incorporation of Egypt has leveled that playing field for the Empire. Perhaps the strictures on politicking in Egypt referred not simply to grain supply but also to the supply of carefully regulate arcane talent.

I can easily picture the Romans picking up a host of nasty rogue based prestige classes based around neutralizing enemy spellcasters. They may have less use now, but the tradition is likely very strong. Mayhap the Eberron Artificer is the actual Roman arcane tradition representing their strong engineering and metalworking skills.

Who are the dragons and djinn going to support? How do they fit into the milleaux?

 

[Abisashi]

SPOILER ALERT!! for Oath of Empire

Thank you for the recommendation, but any fiction that has Muhammad as a hero is not likely something I would be interested in.

***SPOILER for Oath of Empire***

Spoiler

Muhammad isn't necessarily a hero. The first book takes place before any revelations (I wasn't even sure it was him at this point, as I couldn't recall what years he was around.) He's *possibly* a hero later on, except that:

***MAJOR SPOILER***
As far as I can tell the entity claiming to be God is in fact a Great Old One (like Cthulu.) His war on rome is basically a war for vengence, and to appease God(/A Great Old One.) Reading the last page of the last book, where Harlan gives this away, was totally creepy.

 

[mythusmage]

Thank you for your suggestions.

You're welcome.

On the matter of Mohammed and Thomas Harlan's Oath of Empire; give it a shot anyway. It starts out a bit uneven and a tad over-written, but settles down into a good read. And while based on a real life figure the Mohammed of OoE becomes his own person by the end of the series.

Whereto speciation: God and cats will do what God and cats damn well feel like.

Finally, a question: Working on a web site for it? I'm seeing a lot I could adapt to my history of Dragon Earth.

 

[mythusmage]

***SPOILER for Oath of Empire***

(Snip)

That's not the impression I got.

Spoiler:

Spoiler

I can see where one would get the impression the god Mohammed followed was a Cthulhoid beast, but recall Mohammed's sojourn in the vestibule to the afterlife. No, I'd have to say what was said of the god of the wasteland was propaganda on the part of Mohammed's enemies.

Please remember that Prince Maxian Atreus went from hero to villain during the course of the tale. Being snarky about it, Oath of Empire was the story of how Morgoth (Maxian Atreus), Sauron (Lord Dahak), and Gandalf (Mohammed) came to be. It's very much a prelude; the opening to a larger work showing the liberation of the OoE Earth from the Emperor Maxian's tyranny. (As yet unwritten).

It's a complex tale, and as such should be read and considered with great care.

 

[fusangite]

Besides which, my real life Christological sympathies lie with the Alexandrian priest Arius, whose Christology is "lower" than that of the monophysites. In fact, anyone who is familiar with the 4th century Christological disputes should not have any trouble noting my thinly veiled criticisms of the opposition.

Well, I did notice an obvious opposition to the Trinitarian position; I just didn't take it as Arian at first glance. So, in a sense, this setting is well positioned then during the age when Athanasius is in hiding and the true church is Arian.

Thank you for the recommendation, but any fiction that has Muhammad as a hero is not likely something I would be interested in.

But you're an Arian... "they" claim that Arianism was one of the key theologies that informed Mohammed's creation of Islam. Anyway, I remain interested in the governance structure of both the evil trinitarians and the good Arians and what resonances they have with historical church governance. Also, do they see themselves as wholly separate faiths or do they see themselves as linked in some ways? Also, in a situation where doctrine is being hammered-out by councils, who is actually controlling access to spells? Does Athanasius lose his spells or not when he's hiding out? Or did he never have them at all?

Early Christianity (especially fourth century Christianity) is one of my chief interests. I am willing to discuss it with you here or offline, as appropriate.

I think we're pretty civil here so if you're holding back on your ideas about the church in your world, please stop and tell us what you've got in mind.

...Only to the extent that Manichaeism was about cosmic dualism.

Well, that was all I meant. I guess what I'm getting at is: what is/are the thing(s) the trinitarians are worshipping?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I think we're pretty civil here so if you're holding back on your ideas about the church in your world, please stop and tell us what you've got in mind.Well, that was all I meant. I guess what I'm getting at is: what is/are the thing(s) the trinitarians are worshipping?
I must admit to some interest on this score, but nonetheless I can't agree with Fusangite that this is a good forum to discuss it in. Particularly as, given Fusangite's presence at the least not to mention myself, this is likely to impinge on historical domains that are still relevant to at least a few active religious debates. Certainly, I've had more than a few orthodox friends who would get very upset over the issue of Arianism and I have trouble remaining neutral myself.

Even now the image of Ork/Goth Foederati charging into battle crying, "There was a time when he was not!" is as troubling to me as it is exciting. The idea that they are charging into battle against innately deluded if not evil trinitarian rebels lends it a yet more disturbing air.

So much as the audience would certainly be civil, I'm not certain how possible that is with the subject under discussion.