My take on it all. (A Rant of sorts, feel free to ignore)

[shadowguidex]

The cinematics of the game are very evident in 4E. The fight in Fellowship of the Ring, between the Cave Troll and it's Orc minions, and a group of 9 PCs, would be a perfect fight.

The Orcs are minions (Show me one in the movie that didn't die from 1 hit). The cave troll is an elite opponent that continued to fight for a long time, tossing people around, fighting off all nine of the fellowship for a lengthy amount of time. This sort of fight in 3E would have been nearly impossible to design AND have it be well balanced where the Cave Troll wasnt doubling the HD of the party. That scene characterizes perfectly what D&D 4th edition is trying to do.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

But what if I don't want to use that setting . What if in my world "Drow" are emasculated fascist wussies with a chip on their shoulder, what if their whole Warrior par excellence mystique is just propaganda ?
...
As I recall "Drow" as they were stated in 1st-3rd are on par with other "humanoids" (i.e. A 1+ HD monster in AD&D), and there were exceptions made for more advanced members of a given race (3rd took it to extremes). Now we are told "why they are all exceptional, its a society of veritable ubermensch."

Again it seems to be an "Ain't it cool" factor, that permeates the book...which lends to an rather artificial tone to the game. I suppose though that is to be expected from a game that depends so heavily on parity to work.....Okay so now your all 13th level...guess we will get out the Drow then.

The MM is full of stuff that a D&D party is likely to encounter. If you're part of a group of humans, elves, and so on, you're not likely to ever see one of the thousands of "normal" low-level drow walking the streets of Menzoberasklsnsdfsldkfnsdglkj. You're much more likely to face off against the rangers and outriders of the Underdark, who are badasses even among the drow.

If there was a MM designed for drow PCs, the "drow" entry would consist of level 3 pissant town guards, and the "human" entry would be high-level mercenaries... because you're sure as heck not gonna run into many low-level humans wandering around the wilds of the Underdark.

Anyway, if you DO want to make low-level drow NPCs, there's a PC-race writeup in the back of the book. Make a level 1 drow fighter and call it a day. ;-)

 

[BEAN THE CAT]

Exactly how does one pronounce "Menzoberasklsnsdfsldkfnsdglkj"?

 

[Pbartender]

Exactly how does one pronounce "Menzoberasklsnsdfsldkfnsdglkj"?

Poorly.

 

[pawsplay]

Drow don't have minions... they have slaves.

In 4e, they are level 11 slaves with one hit point. Yet another thing about 4e that saddens me.

 

[shadowguidex]

In 4e, they are level 11 slaves with one hit point. Yet another thing about 4e that saddens me.

Minions die. That's their job. I'll list a few sources from film and screen that prove this concept:

Fellowship of the Ring
Braveheart
Kill Bill
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
Goldeneye
24
Austin Powers
Terminator
The Dirty Dozen
Star Trek
Return of the Jedi
Pirates of the Caribbean
The Mummy
X-Men 2
Batman
Star Wars
The Two Towers
Indiana Jones and the Last Cruscade
Raiders of the Lost Arc
The Return of the King

 

[Tony Vargas]

Mechanically, minions have 1 hp, but, really, they're just 'a hit from an apropriate-level PC kills them.' In 3e, you had critters like that - regular orcs when you were Great Cleaving through them with your 4th level fighter, gnolls when he was 8th level, etc. The problem was that damage per hit did not go up as fast as monster hps when up as you leveled. So, by high, anything that you could casually one-shot with an ordinary hit (as opposed to a full power attack lance charge or leap attack) didn't have the offense to even annoy you. That's the problem minions solved. Minions have enough offense to hurt you, and enough AC that you might miss now an then, but when you hit them, they 'die.'

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

If there was a MM designed for drow PCs, the "drow" entry would consist of level 3 pissant town guards, and the "human" entry would be high-level mercenaries... because you're sure as heck not gonna run into many low-level humans wandering around the wilds of the Underdark.

Anyway, if you DO want to make low-level drow NPCs, there's a PC-race writeup in the back of the book. Make a level 1 drow fighter and call it a day. ;-)

Exactly, the Monster Manual is not a "bestiary and anthropology textbook of the D&D world", it is a toolbox for DMs looking for threats to adventurers of all levels.

As I posted before, the Drow of the Monster Manual are those who are threats to the points-of-light of the surface world (usually meaning elite drow warriors, seasoned warmages and trusted priests of lolth).

Now, if Drizzt Do'MartyStu had decided to become a peaceful baker after escaping Menzobewhatsisname, instead of becoming the new ranger stereotype, you could stat him as a level 1 or 2 character who dual-wields a rolling pin and a book of bad poetry.

However, if you are running a regular D&D game, where it is expected that you take on an underdark menace after getting rid of some kobolds, goblins, orcs and giants... then the pre-made drow, drider and kuo-toas in the MM will be just there, ready for you.

In 4e, they are level 11 slaves with one hit point. Yet another thing about 4e that saddens me.

Pawsplay, don't threadcrap... you are better than that.

 

[Hjorimir]

The cinematics of the game are very evident in 4E. The fight in Fellowship of the Ring, between the Cave Troll and it's Orc minions, and a group of 9 PCs, would be a perfect fight.

The Orcs are minions (Show me one in the movie that didn't die from 1 hit). The cave troll is an elite opponent that continued to fight for a long time, tossing people around, fighting off all nine of the fellowship for a lengthy amount of time. This sort of fight in 3E would have been nearly impossible to design AND have it be well balanced where the Cave Troll wasnt doubling the HD of the party. That scene characterizes perfectly what D&D 4th edition is trying to do.

This.

 

[Xorn]

Incidentally, there will be a huge drow army attacking the surface in my campaign.

I think that'll be a good Paragon campaign.