Regardless of the varying points of view, lets look at what we all seem to be agreeing on and weigh that.
1) The mystic theurge is causing a large amount of disagreement and debate. The result being probably one of the biggest divisions between D&D fans on the internet.
2) It is a band-aid solution that does not resolve the true problem being the multi-classing rules. Like Monte Cook said, their is no difference between the multiclassed 10 wiz/ 10 clr and a 5 wiz/ 5 clr / 10 MT story wise. Game mechanical, the MT is superior to the other. Something is wrong with that.
3) The mystic theurge does not fully solve the problem for any other mutliclass combinations. The optimal final character (not including other prestige classes, and 3rd party materials) is a 7 wiz/ 3 clr / 10 MT. Other classes lose to much of their abilities to find this prestige class worthwhile.
4) The mystic theurge threatens to weaken or overly strengthen the power balance of all previousily designed spell casting prestige classes. A perfect example using the true necromancer from tome of blood: wiz 6/ 3 clr/ 10 mt / 1 TrN. This class can cast as a Wiz 17/ clr 13 still (jsut like the wiz 7/ 3 clr/ 10 mt can), but its necromancy and death domain spells are cast as a level 30 spellcaster. This class experiences no loss in spell selection and gains a whole school at 10 levels higher than it should.
5) Any player who wishes to multiclass into cleric and wizard more than 3 levels each is foolish not to take this class, in turn meaning that the class causes pigeon holeing. It was built to make this multiclass combination optimal and in turn it is the most powerful option available which most liekly means it becomes the only option.
Now taking these facts, and laying them out: The mystic theurge is a band-aid solution to attempt to optimize divine & arcane spell caster mutliclassing. The class even says in its own description this is what it is supposed to do. It has obvious reprecusions to game balance and does not solve the problem it sets out to. But what is the real problem?
Multi class rules for spellcasting characters.
Ask yourselves this:
1) if the multiclassing rules worked, ie putting spell casters together gave you a character that was balanced in capability with non-spellcasting multiclassed characters (a problem most of us and all of the main designers see) would you need this prestige class? Would you even build it?
2) If we approve of fixes like this, then what happens to the balance of all of the other classes?
If someone were sick would you rather cover up the symptons and ignore the true problem, or cure the disease that is causing those symptoms?
With these facts I personally feel we need to get rid of the mystic theurge and find the proper solution. Otherwise we will regret it in the long run when the unseen sideeffect appear.
One more thing I have to add. I CAN NOT reveal my sources, but it is my understanding from that this class was not in the last playtester copy of the 3.5 rules. Meaning that this class has not reiceved the same play testing that the new haste, ranger, harm, heal etc.. have. It at most was begun playtesting in the last six months. Considering this, and already the effect the class has had on the D&D community we need to look at what the true problem is and how it really should be fixed.
My hunch is that WOTC knows somehting is not quite right about this class and put it out on the web to get feedback like this from everyone before the books were finished.
What does everyone think?
1) The mystic theurge is causing a large amount of disagreement and debate. The result being probably one of the biggest divisions between D&D fans on the internet.
2) It is a band-aid solution that does not resolve the true problem being the multi-classing rules. Like Monte Cook said, their is no difference between the multiclassed 10 wiz/ 10 clr and a 5 wiz/ 5 clr / 10 MT story wise. Game mechanical, the MT is superior to the other. Something is wrong with that.
3) The mystic theurge does not fully solve the problem for any other mutliclass combinations. The optimal final character (not including other prestige classes, and 3rd party materials) is a 7 wiz/ 3 clr / 10 MT. Other classes lose to much of their abilities to find this prestige class worthwhile.
4) The mystic theurge threatens to weaken or overly strengthen the power balance of all previousily designed spell casting prestige classes. A perfect example using the true necromancer from tome of blood: wiz 6/ 3 clr/ 10 mt / 1 TrN. This class can cast as a Wiz 17/ clr 13 still (jsut like the wiz 7/ 3 clr/ 10 mt can), but its necromancy and death domain spells are cast as a level 30 spellcaster. This class experiences no loss in spell selection and gains a whole school at 10 levels higher than it should.
5) Any player who wishes to multiclass into cleric and wizard more than 3 levels each is foolish not to take this class, in turn meaning that the class causes pigeon holeing. It was built to make this multiclass combination optimal and in turn it is the most powerful option available which most liekly means it becomes the only option.
Now taking these facts, and laying them out: The mystic theurge is a band-aid solution to attempt to optimize divine & arcane spell caster mutliclassing. The class even says in its own description this is what it is supposed to do. It has obvious reprecusions to game balance and does not solve the problem it sets out to. But what is the real problem?
Multi class rules for spellcasting characters.
Ask yourselves this:
1) if the multiclassing rules worked, ie putting spell casters together gave you a character that was balanced in capability with non-spellcasting multiclassed characters (a problem most of us and all of the main designers see) would you need this prestige class? Would you even build it?
2) If we approve of fixes like this, then what happens to the balance of all of the other classes?
If someone were sick would you rather cover up the symptons and ignore the true problem, or cure the disease that is causing those symptoms?
With these facts I personally feel we need to get rid of the mystic theurge and find the proper solution. Otherwise we will regret it in the long run when the unseen sideeffect appear.
One more thing I have to add. I CAN NOT reveal my sources, but it is my understanding from that this class was not in the last playtester copy of the 3.5 rules. Meaning that this class has not reiceved the same play testing that the new haste, ranger, harm, heal etc.. have. It at most was begun playtesting in the last six months. Considering this, and already the effect the class has had on the D&D community we need to look at what the true problem is and how it really should be fixed.
My hunch is that WOTC knows somehting is not quite right about this class and put it out on the web to get feedback like this from everyone before the books were finished.
What does everyone think?
