Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Mystic theurge vs pure wizard/cleric
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2621520" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>While it is true that the difference is more pronounced at level 15, it is hardly devastatingly weak.</p><p></p><p>Plus, most campaigns last for more than a single level. Or even three levels.</p><p></p><p>Even at level 15 where you are two levels behind, the spells are (assuming an 18 stat for one class ability score and a 19 in the other, where the 18 will become 19 at level 16):</p><p></p><p>06/07/07/07/6/5/4/3/2 15 Cleric</p><p>04/05/05/05/5/4/3/2/1 15 Wizard</p><p>05/06/06/06/6/5/4/3/2 15 Specialized Wizard</p><p></p><p>10/12/11/10/8/5/2/0/0 Cleric 3/Wizard 3/MysticTheurge 9</p><p>11/13/12/11/9/6/3/0/0 Cleric 3/Specialized Wizard 3/MysticTheurge 9</p><p></p><p>If you consider this to be a Cleric with some offensive spells, you are giving up at most 2 6th, 3 7th, and 2 8th level spells (which granted can be very potent) for 14 lower level spells and the ability to both spontaneously heal and cast offensive spells. Your caster level is the same if you take Practiced Spellcaster (and who wouldn't?).</p><p></p><p>Due to the lower BAB, hit dice, saves (except Will), and lack of armor, you really have to consider this character a Wizard who can heal himself (as opposed to a Cleric who can cast offensive spells since he cannot fill the role of a normal front line Cleric) which means you are giving up 4 high level spells (1 6th, 2 7th, and 1 8th) for 22 lower level ones and basically the ability to have virtually every spell that you might possibly need (Lesser Restoration, Neutralize Poison, Globe of Invulnerability, etc.) virtually every day. That amount of versatility is huge. You need all of your first level Wizard spell slots for other things, you put Protection From Evil into a Clerical first level spell slot.</p><p></p><p>I played a MT (Druid / Sorcerer) once and enjoyed it immensely just due the fact that I basically had a spell for nearly every situation.</p><p></p><p>And when prepped ahead of time, a divine / arcane character is defensively hard to beat. They have so many ways to protect and buff themselves it's scary. Your 15 Wizard does not have a Spell Resistance spell, no problem. The MT does. Your 15 Cleric does not have a Stoneskin spell, no problem. The MT does. Clerics cannot cast Cat's Grace, no problem. The MT can.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 2621520, member: 2011"] While it is true that the difference is more pronounced at level 15, it is hardly devastatingly weak. Plus, most campaigns last for more than a single level. Or even three levels. Even at level 15 where you are two levels behind, the spells are (assuming an 18 stat for one class ability score and a 19 in the other, where the 18 will become 19 at level 16): 06/07/07/07/6/5/4/3/2 15 Cleric 04/05/05/05/5/4/3/2/1 15 Wizard 05/06/06/06/6/5/4/3/2 15 Specialized Wizard 10/12/11/10/8/5/2/0/0 Cleric 3/Wizard 3/MysticTheurge 9 11/13/12/11/9/6/3/0/0 Cleric 3/Specialized Wizard 3/MysticTheurge 9 If you consider this to be a Cleric with some offensive spells, you are giving up at most 2 6th, 3 7th, and 2 8th level spells (which granted can be very potent) for 14 lower level spells and the ability to both spontaneously heal and cast offensive spells. Your caster level is the same if you take Practiced Spellcaster (and who wouldn't?). Due to the lower BAB, hit dice, saves (except Will), and lack of armor, you really have to consider this character a Wizard who can heal himself (as opposed to a Cleric who can cast offensive spells since he cannot fill the role of a normal front line Cleric) which means you are giving up 4 high level spells (1 6th, 2 7th, and 1 8th) for 22 lower level ones and basically the ability to have virtually every spell that you might possibly need (Lesser Restoration, Neutralize Poison, Globe of Invulnerability, etc.) virtually every day. That amount of versatility is huge. You need all of your first level Wizard spell slots for other things, you put Protection From Evil into a Clerical first level spell slot. I played a MT (Druid / Sorcerer) once and enjoyed it immensely just due the fact that I basically had a spell for nearly every situation. And when prepped ahead of time, a divine / arcane character is defensively hard to beat. They have so many ways to protect and buff themselves it's scary. Your 15 Wizard does not have a Spell Resistance spell, no problem. The MT does. Your 15 Cleric does not have a Stoneskin spell, no problem. The MT does. Clerics cannot cast Cat's Grace, no problem. The MT can. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Mystic theurge vs pure wizard/cleric
Top