D&D 4E Mythusmage's D&D 4e Thoughts

[mythusmage]

Format: Three books.

Core Rules: Contains the mechanics for running a character in D&D. Character creation, character advancement, life in the world.

Setting: Has the mechanics for runinng a campaign. Plus information on the setting, economics, politics, social and physical geography.

Magic: Since magic in D&D is a bit too large to stick in the Core Rules book, it gets a tome of its own.

Each book would be available in two formats, print and electronic. The electronic version would come as a set of PDFs, one file per chapter. Said files available through POD should the purchaser so wish. The print version would come with the PDFs on CD. The PDFs would be available for purchase online for those who don't feel like paying for the print version.

Mythusmage's Thinking on Characters

All characters have the following in common.

Species
Race
Ethnicity
Environment
Social Class
Base Class
Vocation.

Each determines what a character has in the way of traits, abilities, knacks, and skills. For example; a kobold gets +2 to hit against man-sized targets because of his size, a +2 on mining checks because he's a Southland kobold, a +2 on diplomacy checks because he's from the kingdom of Westlake, has Streetwise (Lakeside District) because he's a lower class urban dweller, -2 on reactions from middle and upper class persons because he is lower class, gets a BAB of +1 because his base class is Fighter, and has proficiency with picks and axes because he is a miner

Base Classes and Vocations

Four base classes: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, and Wizard. Each having a number of associated Vocations. Minstrel, Troubadour, Musician for Rogue for example. Bard and Skald would be Cleric Vocations. Some vocations would have access to skills and abilities form other Base Classes. Paladin being a Fighter vocation with access to some Cleric abilities, while Ranger is a Fighter Vocation with access to Rogue and Cleric abilities.

Other Vocations would lack full access to the associated Base Class's abilities. A Scholar for instance would not have access to Wizard spells, even though Scholar is a Wizard Vocation.

Finis

Those are my thoughts. Yours

 

[IamTheTest]

Id like to see them extrapolate point buy into class development. For instance Evasion could be X points (maybe less points per higher level) and you start a generic PC and buy all of your abilities and features. I think itd make for the most customizable DnD ever.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I'd like to see class abilities bought as per Mutants and Masterminds rules.

 

[wedgeski]

The more I play d20 Modern, the closer to perfect I think its class system is, and I want 4ed to maintain the class system. None of this point-buy nonsense for me!

Six Basic 'Hero' Classes, each built for ten levels around one ability score; a selection of Advanced Classes to take you to 20th level. Essentially, take the Prestige out of Prestige Classes and integrate the idea fully into the core rules. Professions augment basic classes with additional feats, skills, and so on (the equivalent of Mythus' vocations I guess).

The PHB/DMG/MM holy trinity is so essential to D&D that changing it would be a big mistake, but more world-building and general DM'ing advice is essential (i.e. take the good stuff from DMG2 and throw it into the new DMG1).

In most other aspects I want as little to change as possible. Skills and feats need tidying up but they remain a great system. Ditto for the combat rules.

In general, between d20M and 3.5D&D, I think the basis for a great 4ed exists already.

 

[Hairfoot]

The PHB/DMG/MM holy trinity is so essential to D&D that changing it would be a big mistake, but more world-building and general DM'ing advice is essential (i.e. take the good stuff from DMG2 and throw it into the new DMG1).

I agree. Many of us come to DMing through playing, then discover that the joys of world-building outweigh those of playing a single PC. It'd be nice to see more tomes which encourage DMs to flesh-out and describe worlds to players.

 

[delericho]

Those are my thoughts. Yours?

I think you go too far.

I would keep the existing PHB/DMG/MM format as-is. I would also leave the basic race/class/skills/feats/gear structure as they are.

Some changes I would make, though:

1) Remove the half-elf, half-orc and gnomes races from the PHB. Include these in the MM so players can use them if they wish (as, in fact, they are now - no need to repeat that information). Also, the half-elf and half-orc write-ups need beefing up a bit. Neither stacks up next to the Dwarf, and comparisons with Warforged are laughable.

2) Remove Weapon Familiarity. The idea behind it is sound, but the effect is that every dwarven warrior-type uses the Waraxe or, perhaps, the Urgrosh, because these are simply the best weapons that are available. I prefer not having one or two clearly optimal choices.

3) Remove Favoured Classes.

4) Reduce the number of 'rules elements' associated with the elf and the dwarf. At the moment, they get a huge raft of benefits, a lot of which are seldom used and others of which occur only in special cases. If some of these can be removed to other parts of the system, I think that would be a good thing. In particular, I'm thinking the Stonecutting ability can largely be rolled into Search or Knowledge: Dungeoneering.

5) Classes should be rethought, with an eye towards deciding what should be a base class and what should be a prestige class. At a minimum, I feel that base classes should not have alignment restrictions, should not be culturally based (so, no Samurai or Knight), and it should be possible to envisage at least three different models for the class, and some sane way to see multiple members of any given race taking the class. So, for example, if one simply cannot see there ever being more than one extreme example of a Dwarf Druid, Druid should not be a base class (that was an example - I have no problem envisaging that combo, and have no problem with the Druid base class).

6) There should be twelve base classes in the PHB. Of the existing classes, the Paladin should become a PrC, but the others are probably fine. I'd probably add the Duskblade and Scout to complete the set.

7) Introduce d20 Modern-style talent trees to the classes. This especially applies to the Ranger, Barbarian and Rogue.

8) Use class-based Defense bonuses and Weapon Group proficiencies as core options.

(Note, between #7 and #8, the core supports lightly-armoured mobile Fighters a lot better. This may remove the need for a Swashbuckler class. If not, replace Scout with Swashbuckler, in #6 above.)

9) Redo the Sorcerer skill list entirely. Beef up that class a bit. Remove Specialist Wizards from the core. (see below)

10) Do something to fix multiclass spellcasters. I'm not sure what the 'correct' fix is, but this is one of my 'must fix' areas before I think a release of 4th edition can be justified.

11) Give characters 6 times the base skill points at 1st level. Leave the (level +3) cap as-is.

12) Remove class skills, and instead use the skill groups rules from Iron Heroes.

13) Consider giving each class a small set of group choices that they can choose from. Don't simply let them choose class skills freely (since this effectively just gives them all skills they want as class skills, whatever they are). However, a swashbuckler-package Fighter will want different groups from a Conan-package Fighter. Adding that flexibility to the core slightly increases complexity in the core, but can have a hugely simplifying effect in the expansions.

13) Remove Rope Use (roll into Sleight of Hand). Consider combining Spot and Listen into Awareness, and Hide and Move Silently into Stealth.

14) Consider giving every class at least 4 skill points per level.

15) Strongly consider dropping Vancian magic in favour of a mana-based system. Also, strongly consider dropping all "uses per day" powers, in favour of a model where a power is expended until the character takes some action to regain its use (q.v. Book of Nine Swords).

16) Remove the Epic level rules from the DMG. Use the space for more material on PrCs.

17) Reduce the number of named bonus types. Seven feels like a good number to me. And don't allow supplements to introduce lots of new types.

18) Consider dropping all magic items that give a static bonus, instead rolling these abilities into the character's innate capabilities. Alternately, allow such items, but move to a model where characters have a few more powerful items, rather than the current raft of minor ones.

19) Specifically regarding armour class: the current bonuses should be divided into those that absorb blows and those that avoid them. The former should apply to flat-footed AC but not Touch AC, and the latter the opposite. Then, the system should be set up such that you can get a really good AC one way with a poor AC the other, or a medium AC in both fields.

20) Fix Level Adjustments. This is the second 'must fix' areas that needs dealt with before 4th Edition is justified. My preferred fix at the moment is to do away with LA entirely, and instead tie racial abilities to monster hit dice. So, the basic drow will have 3 hit dice of Humanoid with all those racial abilities. Alternately, provide a stripped down version as the PC race, with the higher level abilities available by taking the racial Paragon class.

21) Include more high-CR foes in the MM that are not dragons or outsiders.

22) Either include more sample chromatic dragons, or change dragons from the current build-your-own format.

#21 and #22 are aimed at Dungeon magazine primarily, allowing high-level adventures to simply refer to the MM, without having to constantly reuse the same handful of monsters.

One more thing, this time about supplements:

Early in the 4e cycle, I would release a "Tome of Magic", which included amongst other things the Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Transmogriphier, Inspired Oracle, Cunning Illusionist, and so forth. One of the recommendations in this book would be that users remove the standard Sorcerer from the game. A similar book should do the same for the Cleric, with variants representing the Archivist, Favoured Soul, Priest Militant, and so forth.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

True20 with Hit Points and more options. It's the only way to be sure.

-TRRW

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

They should just buy Castles & Crusades and make it 4e, with a few tweaks here and there of course.

 

[WayneLigon]

Format: One book containing the core rules.

There are three base classes: Fighter, Expert and Mage. Each has certain specialties; some of the things we now think of as class abilities might be broken out into Feats, but there are some things that this initial class simply does better than others. If you start out as an Expert and then dedicate yourself to magic, you'll still never be as good at it as someone who started out as a Mage.

We still have levels, though perhaps not quite so many. Each level carries some change to the character, be it in combat advancement, spell ability, skills.. something.

We still have skills, though perhaps done in a different manner. In general consider that each class will be good with at least five skills, however that needs to occur. More skill points, bonus points based on class skills, skill categories, whatever. I don't think we have weapon skills. There are plusses and minuses to that approach, but on the whole it adds more complication and effort along with more arguements than it gains us. There are fewer, broader skills.

We still have attributes, but perhaps not in quite the same manner. Dispense with the current means of rolling, or have a bottom cap on stats. Virtually no-one is going to play a character with a less-than-average stat unless there is some burning roleplaying need, so all stats have a minimum of 10, or stats are rolled on 2d6+7, or something similar. Point buy is OK in some respects but should remain an optional rule. I could live with the 'just the bonus' stats, or with fewer stats (Strength, Health, Mind, Spirit perhaps. Charisma is a feat you buy).

The goal of character generation is to have a useful, useable character inside of five minutes without using archtypes or templates.

Spells are either simply abilities (classes of spells bought as feats, perhaps: get the feat Fire Magic, and you get XX) or done somewhat similar to Arcana Unearthed, where there are modifiers to the way your spells work. There are about three dozen spells, total, in the core rules. They should scale, and be generic enough that there should never be a need for 'Tome of Sorcery' or any such thing.

Similarly, there would be about three dozen monsters in the core book. Carefully chosen, that should take care of the vast majority of D&D campaigns right there.

 

[Gold Roger]

Races:

Nothing but finetuning needed.


Classes:

Keep class system.

Remove Iterative attacks by BAB. Multiple attacks are gained by feats and class features.

Give a Class bonus to AC.

All Spellcasters get vastly removed spells per day.

Multiple options on most class features.

Barbarian: Is mostly fine. Remove /day rage and make less front loaded, removealignment restriction.

Bard: Bardic Music at will. Gets a list of bardic music effects, chooses one at 1st and one every x levels. Remove healing from spell list. Move more into the clasical fighter/wizard mold (heck, one of the games most iconic Fighter/Mage types is called a Bladesinger). Remove Alignment restrictions.

Cleric: Domains don't give access to spells but invocation and aura like special abilities.

Druid: Gets more Bard like spellcasting. Can choose from a bunch of continous and at will special abilities, among them various wild shapes and animal companion. Can be played as classical Druid or more like rangers. Maybe full BAB. Remove alignment restrictions.

Fighter: Gets access to maneuvers and stances, following a ToB like system, but less fantastic and over the top. Stuff like improved Sunder or Bullrush become maneuvers.

Monk: Can imho, be removed, as long as there are feat options for unarmed/unarmored cobatants.

Paladin: Is actually mostly alright on rules, except mount, but could be turned into a "Crusader", that fights for his convictions, whatever those may be.

Ranger: With new Druid and Rogue, this one can be removed.

Rogue: Get's to choose from a bunch of special abilities every second level, including sneak attack dice. Also includes fast talking, combat athletics, improved dodge AC etc.

Sorcerer: Not really needed anymore. Maybe rplaced with a magic user that doesn't use spells at all, but follows a certain theme, to represent warlocks, heritages and psionics.

Wizard: Gets at will magic abilities based on school. Generalists get more spells and some more generic abilities (an evocer might blast at-will, while abjurers can counterspell and dispel). Keep Spellbook!

Multiclassing: No xp penalty. Put in "Aprentise level" rules for 1st level multiclassing.


Skills:

Mostly just fine tuning. Replace class skills with skill groups a la Iron Heroes.


Feats:

Characters get more feats. Feats that enable unarmed and lightly armored/unarmored combatants should be included. Include feats that help multiclasses. Include feats that improve certain class/race combos to replace favored classes.

Feats that improve weapon damage increase the die used instead of giving a streight bonus.


Equipment:

Rebalance armors and weapons so all armors/weapons presented are actually viable in some way.


Combat:

Fine tune special cases.

Overhaul Ac the following way: There are only the following boni to AC:

Armor bonus.

Size modifier.

Shield bonus.

Deflection bonus.

Class bonus.

Dodge.

The dodge bonus is set by the Dex modifier plus dodge boni from feats and class features. Armors have a maximum dodge bonus instead of a maximal dex bonus. Monsters with natural armor either simply have high DR/HP or can't benefit from armor.

Likewhise AB consists only of Strength/Dex, BAB, Enhancement bonus and unnamed (from feats).


Spells:

Spells are tide turning, but characters get only few. Maybe even remove spell levels. Generally there's far fewer stacking effects. The Magic system doesn't hinge completely on spells anymore. All effects that can take a character/monster out of combat is still keyed of HP.


Monsters:

Obviously, there will be lots of Monster redesignes. General, there's streamlining.

Big changes to creature types: Remove Ooze, Elemental, Outsider, Giant and Fey.

Add exemplars. Which are living emboyments of principles and abstracts as well as spirits.

Ooze becomes a subtipe or vermin, aberrations and others.

Giants become monstrous humanoids.

Elementals become constructs with elemental subtype or exemplars.

Outsider and fey become exemplars, magical beasts or monstrous humanoids.

Monstrous humanoids need a new name.

Dragons should be a subtype of magical beasts.

Extraplanar becomes a condition instead of a subtype.


Magic items:
Magic Arms and Armors aren't keyed of Enhancement boni anymore, but have each a menu of special abilities.

Magic weapons increase damage by die type, not a straight bonus, unless it's energy damage.

Staffs and Wands become somewhat unneccesary and need a complete overhaul.


Implied Setting, D&D Mythos and Cosmology:

Embrace the classic stuff and give lots of nods. Keep the 3.X PHB Pantheon and include the dragon gods. The stupid Element-Energy type system has to go though. Cold has little to do with water and acid little to do with earth.