Narration back into the system

[Bold or Stupid]

How do you roleplay the healing surges and the Bloodied feature ?

The fewer healing surges I have left the more knackered I am. If I have none I'm practically collapsing dead on my feat and just want to curl up and wimper. The next day I'll whinge about still being beaten black and blue. It has no actuall rules effect because I'm and Big Damn Hero. All my players run it like this, it just seems obvious.

While I see the OP's point I think if they had to many pointers on how rules and RP should interact they would annoy a lot of people, just look at the snide comments about the fluff that comes with powers. D&D in any form has always been fairly abstract and free of guidance on how to treat it

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

For what it's worth,

"Over the course of a battle, you take damage from
attacks. Hit points (hp) measure your ability to stand
up to punishment, turn deadly strikes into glancing
blows, and stay on your feet throughout a battle. Hit
points represent more than physical endurance. They
represent your character’s skill, luck, and resolve—all
the factors that combine to help you stay alive in a
combat situation." -PHB, page 293.

Still, I don't think this passage, or even a larger passage on the topic, would have saved 4e much bashing. 4e changed a lot of underlying assumptions about the game, sometimes without telling the players about it(and of course, many "experienced" players tend to skip the chapters on how things work, they assume they know, and skip to straight mechanics).

Heh, can't XP you again, I was in the midst of cracking my PHB open to that page

I understand Tymophil's point, but I think there's more to it than that. 4e has to at least TRY to cater to a broad audience with a lot of different notions of what D&D is. Many of us have noted that this and that aspect of the game could be construed to be intended to facilitate various methods of RPing, and that little note or discussion of this happens within the core rulebooks, or indeed anywhere in official material. The people who wrote 4e however are quite obviously deeply knowledgeable about RPGs. Did they 'fail' to explain THE way their game was to be played? Or did they simply understand that it would be played in many different ways and as its 'keepers' they needed to stick to the sidelines in this debate? The game is mostly going to be played by people who just want to have a good time and throw some dice. We here are a self-selected group that loves to debate the nuances of TT RPGing, but most groups are more likely to need 'crunch' and practical frameworks for accomplishing the basic tasks of running a game, not esoteric advice on GNS theory and how it applies to D&D. Interestingly enough the DMG contains one such section, but it is entirely dedicated to discussing the types of play people enjoy, not theories ABOUT RPGs.

As for KotS, you could release 100 better adventures and it will still stand as the first 4e module. You can't erase it from history. Just like G1 was the first AD&D module (well sort of) you can write 100 other modules and that one will still stand as the first word on the game.

 

[Pentius]

How do you roleplay the healing surges and the Bloodied feature ?

Well, for bloodied, I usually narrate it as the first hit to draw blood(why yes, I do enjoy terrible puns). Previous hits may have been glancing blows, but the attack that puts a target in bloodied has finally landed. For surges, I tend to treat them as being representative of the will to go on. When you spend a surge, it may not mean that your wounds seal up(though with a divine healing spell or potion, this may well be the case!), but it does mean that you can push through. I also tend to run mechanics together in narration, for example:

Mechanically:
I get hit, and become bloodied. On my turn, I use Second Wind.

Narratively:
The blow is turned aside at the last moment, but still leaves a deep scratch above my cheek. The blood begins to drip down my face. Taking one hand off my sword hilt, I wipe away the blood and stare down my opponent. The look on my face says clearly, "That's the last hit you'll get on me. From here on out, your blood will spill."

 

[Kannik]

The problem, as I see it, is that D&D moved to a system much better suited to a Narrativist style(to parrot my friend pemerton) than the Simulationist style favored by earlier D&D editions. If you want, I can link to a lengthy discussion about it.

You may link away... albeit there's an interesting twist to it, that's even a twist to my own memory:

A few brief words are necessary to insure that the reader has actually obtained a game form which he or she desires. Of the two approaches to hobby games today, one is best defined as the realism-simulation school and the other as the game school. AD&D is assuredly an adherent of the latter school. It does not stress any realism (in the author's opinion an absurd effort at best considering the topic!). It does little to attempt to simulate anything either. ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS is first and foremost a game for the fun and enjoyment of those who seek to use imagination and creativity.

Again from the 1e PHB, circa 1978. I think, in reflection (as I said, it tweaked my memory too) that beyond 1e enough things started getting added to the game that we began to feel it was simulationist, and maybe did become more simulationist, when it was intended as a gamist (narrativist maybe not, but gamist) system. Not that adding in the huge attack type vs AC chart in 1e DMG helped all that much to shy away from the simulationist school of thought... Given that AD&D never began with a simulationist intent, it seems hard to have somehow "taken" simulation away.

As for the topic at hand, how do I/we RP healing surges and etc?

We view HP roughly as 'the amount of oomph you have for a fight', while your total healing surges represents 'the amount of oomph you have for the day'. If I were to go outside and do a 200m dash right now, I'd be hard pressed to do another one of any speed right afterwards (expended all my HP). But give me a few minutes (short rest) and I could probably do a half decent sprint again (back to full HP). Give me an energy drink, and I'll probably do better (divine healing). Give my mental mood a boost, fill me with fire and desire, and I'll probably do better (martial healing). Ask me to do that 10 times in a day, and I'll fall flat on my face by the end. (actually, 10 might be generous...)

Of course, it gets better in the full RP campaign. The mage re-casts his shield spell, the thief works out a pull in his muscle so he can dodge better again, the fighter has his back fixed by divine grace from the cleric, and the monk re-centers himself and breathes deep into his dan tian. Feeling better, the party advances once more...

peace,

Kannik

 

[Pentius]

Alright, only one thread stands out in my memory, but it's really long, so there's that. Here.

 

[Kobold Boots]

I often get the impression that there are, lurking somewhere on the Interwebs, perhaps even on this site, people who have multiple user accounts that ask the same questions with different color over and over again.

Whether it's simply a slow day and somebody needs to guarantee a lengthy thread about something that was discussed two pages back, or if it's just people looking to pick at a scab.. It just doesn't seem likely to me that the same questions will get asked over and over again when there's a lengthy repository of similar threads.

I could however, be overestimating posters. I digress.

Here's my advice: Start narrating and cut way down on the 'this is what the rules say' conversation at the table and it will infect your players over time.

My group recently got to 8-9th level and in preparation for paragon tier I stopped describing skills challenges to my players as such because it was time to expect all of us to "know" the mechanics. The group rolled into a heavily modified Vecna challenge from the end of the Thunderspire module and I just started role-playing Vecna while the group was busy dealing with a shadow lich in the same room.

They caught on just fine and got through the encounter. So the moral is, if you stop treating every aspect of the game like it has to be explained, you give yourself time to narrate.

 

[Tymophil]

Here's my advice: Start narrating and cut way down on the 'this is what the rules say' conversation at the table and it will infect your players over time.

Then how do you narrate hit points variations and healing surges use ?

My group recently got to 8-9th level and in preparation for paragon tier I stopped describing skills challenges to my players as such because it was time to expect all of us to "know" the mechanics. The group rolled into a heavily modified Vecna challenge from the end of the Thunderspire module and I just started role-playing Vecna while the group was busy dealing with a shadow lich in the same room.

They caught on just fine and got through the encounter. So the moral is, if you stop treating every aspect of the game like it has to be explained, you give yourself time to narrate.

Skills are easy to narrate... They beg for narration in fact. Therefore, I did not ask for advices on this topic. Nor do I see that advices are required.

Now, hit points, healing surges and most other aspects of combat (powers, shifts, pushes, etc.) are much harder to narrate. What is your take on those ?

I have already gathered a fair amount of advices in this thread. I plan to submit them to my fellow players, and would be delighted to hear your own advices.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think ultimately you can only lead the horse to the water. Describe the monster's attacks and other actions narratively. You'll obviously have to interject some gamespeak in there. Kind of inevitable. Some players are more into that than others, and some will describe routine power use mostly in mechanical terms most of the time. OTOH you can also interject some descriptive language in there. Mostly aim for fun. Not every session or every player are going to be glowing examples of colorful description, but most players enjoy it to one degree or another and they'll pick up on the fun if they want to. If they don't care as much about that aspect of the game then it usually isn't productive to keep hammering on it. Making sure that fights have more interesting dimensions than just slugging it out should help too. The players will be more into a cool description of the demise of the hated bad guy than they will of the 4th orc from the left, unless maybe said orc makes itself interesting. Monsters that do stunts or have just some minor unique bit to them can help with that too though. Even if it is just an orc that uses a big mace instead of an axe, or likes to make silly taunts, etc.

 

[Kobold Boots]

Then how do you narrate hit points variations and healing surges use ?

Hit point variations are only narrated when players ask how a foe appears. They can appear healthy, winded, bleeding, etc and the conditions on any foe are easily narrated as something being slow to move or act etc. If someone scores a critical, I take the time to narrate the effects of the blow and how it leaves the opponent but I do not actively narrate hit point totals, it slows the game down too much.

Skills are easy to narrate... They beg for narration in fact. Therefore, I did not ask for advices on this topic. Nor do I see that advices are required.

This is all well and good, but the topic strayed to skills challenges so please don't be a jerk in reply. If I'm reading a false tone in your words, then carry on and I apologize.

Shifts, pushes, and other movement effects can be narrated by looking at the power and determining what the game effect really is. In the case where a player pushes an opponent it's up to the player to determine how his power interacts with the opponent to produce the effect.

I've found that leading by example in this case works best. If I narrate a push effect by stating that the force of a fighters blow pushes the opponent 3 squares, or the forces of chaos shift an opponent a square, then my players will eventually follow suit.

I have already gathered a fair amount of advices in this thread. I plan to submit them to my fellow players, and would be delighted to hear your own advices.

See above.

 

[wlmartin]

I have to say that I am not satisfied with D&D4 as it is. It is, in my opinion, the best incarnation of D&D so far... But it suffers from some serious flaws.
During any encounter, I have the feeling I am playing a badly designed wargame, as a player or a Dungeon master, I cannot give a narration of the fight.

What is stopping you from narrating the fight.
Each attack by a monster or a PC can be a one line narration of what is going on, every battle formation the monsters make or special magical attack they cast can be a narration.

The only limit is your imagination!

Still, I want combats to be another roleplay experience. It seems possible, but rather difficult.

Let's begin with hit points. Here what I have in mind to roleplay them.

In my mind, before you get bloodied, each hp lost represents, depending on the form of attack, a loss of stamina, confidence, situational awareness, etc. When you get bloodied you think you have been wounded wounded. Then every loss of hp can be seen as another loss of stamina, confidence, etc. Or, could represent a larger splash of blood on you.
When you spend a healing surge or receive some healing during a fight, then it means that you somehow gather your thoughts and regain some confidence, balance, breath, etc. If you're still bloodied after the healing, you still believe that you're wounded, but gather some new confidence, stamina, etc.
If you are no more bloodied, you have now a better evaluation of the situation. You find out that the blood splat is from a superficial scratch, it's only sweat after all, it's in fact your opponent's blood, etc.
When you spend healing surges after the fight, and had been bloodied, it simply portrays the fact that you thoroughly scan your body discovering that your supposed wounds were not that serious after all. If your still bloodied, then you were actually wounded...

Did some of you come up with similar “fluff” to instil some roleplay into the D&D4 system ?

Not every mechanic can be roleplayed but there is nothing from stopping you narrating someone being bloodied.

Instead of "He is bloodied" say "The Wererat almost looks like he is about to feint... he regains his composure and looks ready to fight again"

Honestly, the only limit as a player or DM in D&D is your imagination.