Natural weapons and Touch attacks

[VGer]

Hello.

Can a creature use a natural attack, like a claw, to deliver a melee touch attack?

What I mean is, if the claw hits, the creature deals damage equal to the claw damage plus the touch attack damage.

I can't find any official rule about this, but I am thinking in allowing it.

 

[hong]

Yes, you can use a natural weapon to deliver a touch effect. Officially, you need to make a normal attack (not a touch attack); if you hit, you do the natural weapon damage, and deliver the touch effect as well. If you miss, then no damage is dealt, and the touch effect is not delivered.

IMO this is silly, and I'd allow the touch effect to be delivered as long as the attack roll is sufficient to hit the target's touch AC, even if it isn't enough to hit the regular AC.

 

[VGer]

That's how I was thinking of doing it, just wanted to make sure if there was any official rule about that.

 

[Darklone]

Something similar is proposed in the FAQ.

 

[isoChron]

I think you can deliver a touch attack via natural weapons but always consider which weapon !
Why ?
If the natural weapon is the claw of a tiger for example and the first strike misses he will in all probability touch the ground with that claw (for balance reason or whatever) and the spell fizzles.
A totally different case with the bite attack ...

To define if a claw touches the ground a balance check seems appropriate to me.
But that is all far beyond the core rules I think...
Hmm, just my 2cents.
BYE

 

[Pax]

I think you can deliver a touch attack via natural weapons but always consider which weapon !
Why ?
If the natural weapon is the claw of a tiger for example and the first strike misses he will in all probability touch the ground with that claw (for balance reason or whatever) and the spell fizzles.

Now, that's just silly.

First off, Touch spells don't care if you (as a human) touch them with yoru hand, punch them with your fist, use your left hand, your right hand ... headbutt them ...

...

... or KICK THEM. Yet, your feet touch the ground, right? Why doesn't the touch spell discharge into the ground?

Simple: because -- no offense -- that'd be stupid.

If you're going to worry about touching something other than a creature, consider: the instant you cast the spell, you're touching something other than a creature: the AIR.

 

[Mahali]

Because the rules do care. "Holding a charge" explains why.

Also when making an attack with a touch spell you apply damage and then spell effect.

 

[Pax]

Because the rules do care. "Holding a charge" explains why.

Also when making an attack with a touch spell you apply damage and then spell effect.

Fine.

When the tiger has a "hand" and touches something with it, great -- but I daresay, it's pws are FEET, not hands.

The rules on PHB151 say "if you touch anythign with your hand" the spell is ruined (of course, I have to ask -- does that include air? a handful of sand broadcast at you by the enemy?).

The rules on PHB126 don't specify touching with your HAND, they just say "touch anything".

Aren't you always "touching" your clothes? What about the ground? And again, what of the -air- itself ... ? After all, -that- passage doesn't specify "with your hands"; it's perfectly legit for that rule to be interpreted as "with your nose" or "with your big toe".

 

[Mahali]

Go put your loaded crossbow in your Glove of Storing then come back to this thread.

 

[Pax]

Excuse me?