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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Levistus's_Leviathan" data-source="post: 8253323" data-attributes="member: 7023887">This thread is meant to have a general discussion about having <a href="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NayTheist" target="_blank">Nay-Theist</a> and <a href="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlatEarthAtheist" target="_blank">Flat-Earth Atheist</a> characters in campaigns, and how they differ from world to world. Links to explanations of the definitions of these character types are provided in their names above, but I will simplify it a bit for those who tend to not click on off-site links in the spoilers below.[SPOILER="Definition of Nay-Theist"]A person that acknowledges the existence of a deity (or deities) in a world that truly has one/them, but refuses to worship them (for a variety of reasons). The "nay" in the name isn't about the existence of the deities, it's about the individual's worship of them. [/SPOILER][SPOILER="Definition of Flat-Earth Atheist"]A person that lives in a world that truly has a deity/multiple deities but refuses to acknowledge their existence or believe in them. This is called "Flat-Earth Atheism" due to the fact that we live on a spherical/(oblate ellipsoid) world, but Flat Earthers still exist and profess that the earth is flat.[/SPOILER](Note: This thread is not meant for bashing Flat-Earthers, it is to discuss these different types of characters in D&D worlds/campaigns. I did not coin these names, so don't get angry at me for the name if you believe that the Earth is flat. Also a note, this thread is not for discussing any real life religious beliefs.)The major thing that you should keep in mind is that "Atheists/Agnostics" that exist in D&D don't have to be either of these characters. A genuine Atheist similar to one in real life could exist in D&D settings where the existence of the deities is more vague and undetermined, like Eberron (the angels don't even know if the gods exist). A Nay-Theist in Eberron would be someone that believes that the gods exist, but doesn't worship them, while a Flat-Earth Atheist could not exist in Eberron (unless a Flat-Earth Atheist from a world that obviously has deities somehow manages to travel to Eberron, that is).The major D&D worlds that obviously have deities are the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Theros, Exandria, Dragonlance, Nentir Vale, and Ravenloft, while the ones that are less clear in whether or not they have actual deities are Ravnica and Eberron. Dark Sun used to have deities, but they're gone now, so characters that are Nay-Theists or Flat-Earth Atheists are things of the past. Mystara doesn't have deities, and instead has Immortals, so "Nay-Theists" would basically be those that refuse to serve the Immortals, and Flat-Earth Atheists wouldn't exist, instead having the possibility of Flat-Earth Theists, as people that believe that god(s) exist in the setting, even though they definitively do not.So, now that we've covered the definitions of these characters and briefly went over where they can and cannot exist, I'll briefly cover that a Nay-Theist/Flat-Earth Atheist can be a paladin or cleric, as presented in the PHB describing, "Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin’s power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god," and Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica describing the world's clerics as most often being "dedicated to more abstract principles" instead of to deities. (Paladins get their power from devotion to an oath and obeying its tenets, while a cleric gets its power through worship of a deity or devoting your life to a universal concept, like Life, Light, Death, Peace, and so on.)Mythic Odysseys of Theros even says, "No one can deny the reality of the gods of Theros, whose presence and deeds are visible in the night sky and sometimes directly in the mortal realm. But some people [Iconoclasts] refute the idea that the gods are worthy of reverence", making the existence of such Nay-Theists "canon" for 5e (and Flat-Earth Atheists in Theros would be like a Flat-Earther on a world much smaller than Earth, where the planet's curvature is much more apparent than it is on Earth).So, what are your thoughts on this? How common are such characters in your world(s)? (I also assume that Nay-Theists are much more common than Flat-Earth Atheists.) Have you ever incorporated such characters in your campaigns? These characters do inspire characters/factions for me, and I want to know what the community thinks of it and what ideas you have.</blockquote>

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