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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8254737" data-attributes="member: 6779196">Right, but I’m asking what defines that subset.Being a source of magical powers is not unique to gods. This is not a practical difference between gods and warlock patrons.If divine magic is defined as magic granted by gods and arcane magic is magic that isn’t granted by gods (but can be granted by entities-that-aren’t-gods), defining gods as entities that grant divine magic is circular logic.Being powerful and having stats are not unique to gods. This is not a meaningful difference between gods and other powerful entities.This is vague and does not clearly identify any practical distinction.Yes. Gods are worshipped. This is my proposal for what practically differentiates gods from other powerful beings.Right, so the worship of gods has various benefits, including potentially what afterlife you’ll go to, and the gaining of divine magic. The worship is still what’s defining the difference.Gods are not the only entities to come from other planes, or to be unable to manifest in the material plane. This is not a practical difference between gods and other extraplanar entities.Lots of things can be born or made. This is not a practical difference between gods and other beings.Lots of things can be immortal, and lots of things can be mortal. This is not a practical difference between gods and other mortals/immortals.Ok, this one’s not bad. In some settings, gods can hear prayers from their worshipers or otherwise sense things related to their portfolio. I’m not sure this is necessarily unique to gods - can a warlock patron hear their warlock’s invocations of their name, or sense when their warlock uses their power? I’m inclined to say yes, but it is probably setting-dependent. It’s also tied to worship, so I’m inclined to file this under “benefits of worshipping a god” in settings where it’s present.Again, worship seems to be the practical defining feature of godhood.Right, that’s my point. That leaves room for a character to believe that what others worship as gods are in fact other sorts of supernatural being, and therefore not to be worshipped. Such a character would be a nay-theist. A flat-eath atheist would be a character who believes the entities others worship as gods don’t exist at all (despite evidence to the contrary).Yeah, I do too, which means flat-earth atheists couldn’t really exist in my campaign, just like they can’t exist in Eberron. There are probably atheists, but they’re definitionally not flat-earth atheists because the things people worship as gods can’t be proven to exist.Well, most of them, anyway. Bahamut and Tiamat definitely exist, as does the Raven Queen, but there are absolutely people who  believe they’re just very powerful dragons and/or a very powerful witch or hag, and shouldn’t be worshipped as gods. Those people would I guess be nay-theists by these definitions? But, like, my world has many different religions; most followers of, say, the celestial gods wouldn’t believe the elder dragons are divine. I suppose there could be people who don’t believe they exist at all, but again, I’m not sure flat-earth atheist would necessarily be an accurate description for them because they might believe in the existence and/or divinity of other gods. Avandra canonically was a real woman who existed, though there are almost certainly people who doubt the historical accuracy of accounts of her life, and there are likely also people who don’t believe she ever really existed and that stories of her were just propaganda.That’s the thing, these categories are really only applicable to settings where there is a defined set of gods who are known to exist and known to be the only gods. Once you introduce reasonable doubt and multiple belief systems, they kind of break down.</blockquote>

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